[Maro_89]

Originally Posted by HoodCheck

In what way? Absolutely not mixed up.
Stock power goes to ZL1, but I'll take the Z/28 all day over the ZL1 even with less power. Its why I'm either ditching mine and going back to a Z/28 when the right one comes along (I have my eye on 2 different ones, but given the current situation, not much I can do about it, because I damn sure ain't flying to pick one up right now lol), or just getting another Z/28 and parking the ZL1 in the driveway in case I get lazy and want to drive auto some days. I don't dislike the ZL1, I just prefer the Z/28...its the only car I've ever missed after it was gone (and I've had *many* cars lol).

Man I gotta flip a coin here between these two cars with you lol. It seems like you prefer the Z28 and talk good about it. Since you had both and just driving aspect alone are they that much different? Obviously one is faster than the other but how is the actually "feel" of the drive between the two cars if that makes sense?

[pauly1119]

Money is probably safer with the Z28 but the ZL1 is a better car but the ZL1 will lose more value then the Z28 so I guess its what your looking for.

[Maro_89]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Hi Maro-89,
As an owner of a previous 5th gen Camaro ZL1 and now an owner of a 6th. gen Camaro SS, maybe I can give you a word of advise.
There was a huge steep forward toward technology design and improved performance with the 6th gen Camaro:
-Introduction of the superb handling "Alpha" platform, wich was also used on the Cadillac ATS-V & CTS-V sport cars.
-Improved eLSD on the SS1LE & ZL1 models.
-Lighter weight


On 2016 MT's driver's car they commented by far, the lower SS1LE model broke all the speed, handling, braking, laps records of the previous 5th gen performance models (ZL1 & Z28 track prep Camaro that came with Trofeo track tires, high performance brakes and suspension), the 6th gen SS1LE was riding on just Summer street tires and using a streetable magnetic suspension to give you an idea. If the 6th gen SS1LE beated the mighty 5th gen Camaro Z28, the actual ZL1 demolishes that prior Z28 model.

Nurburgring lap times:
6th gen ZL1 1LE: 7:10.04
6th gen ZL1: 7:29.60
5th gen Z28: 7:37.4


Don't get me wrong I loved the looks of my 5th gen Camaro ZL1 muscle car. The Z28 would be great if you are looking for a Classical limited edition Camaro.
But if you are looking for improved performance it would not compare with the 6th gen ZL1 & SS1LE Camaro.


Information from MT's 2016 Best drivers car:

6th gen Camaro SS1LE:

0-60: 4 secs = to the 5th gen Z28

1/4 mile: 12.4. VS 5th gen Z28: 12.3 secs

60-0: 94 feet (new record). 5th gen Z28: 100 foot

Lat. Accel. : 1.09 (new record), 5th gen Z28: 1.08

Figure eight : 23.3 (new record). 5th gen Z28: 23.6

Lap time: 1:33.77 (new record). 5th gen Z28: 1.38



Attached is the picture of my not forgoten 5th gen 2014 Camaro ZL1.

Thank you for the advice no doubt the 6th gens did make a good step forward. Some people seem to be partial to the previous gen because of the bigger roomier car as well as its muscle car look but 6th gens did make a leap in improvement for sure. You had a nice 5th gen ZL1!

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by Maro_89

Man I gotta flip a coin here between these two cars with you lol. It seems like you prefer the Z28 and talk good about it. Since you had both and just driving aspect alone are they that much different? Obviously one is faster than the other but how is the actually "feel" of the drive between the two cars if that makes sense?

My ZL1 is an A10 model, so its different automagically from that. To be honest, the feel isn't that much different, except the normal ZL1 doesn't follow the road as much, and doesn't sit quite as low, and that clearance is handy (you still can't clear a curb when parking with either though). But then again, I never found the Z/28 to be much different in the typical roughness of the ride than any other camaro I've owned (which is probably ~20; I honestly don't remember...a camaro was the first car I've bought, and I've had a camaro almost constantly since 96).
Honestly I don't know HOW anyone thinks the ZL1 is more comfortable. The seats are more cramped (or at least they feel that way), they don't lean back as much, you just plain don't have as much space....I personally find the seats themselves pretty uncomfortable, and the one time I drove the car for a bit over an hour, my back actually hurt (I have no back problems or anything). Thats why I always say I'd never want to drive the thing for an hour or more (well, that and just general discomfort). The 5th gen recaros were much more comfortable, and cooler looking, imo...just not as many features (I personally have never used any heated or cooled seating features in any car I've owned that have them, so I could care less about that).
The feel of the NA power I like better as well; its not as quick to get to speed (even if you had the exact same hp/tq, it wouldn't "feel" as quick), even if you were to run a 1/4 at the same time, that supercharger will get you moving off the line much quicker, but NA just has a more old school feeling to it (needs a carb though lol).
All just my opinion though of course.

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Hi Maro-89,
As an owner of a previous 5th gen Camaro ZL1 and now an owner of a 6th. gen Camaro SS, maybe I can give you a word of advise.
There was a huge steep forward toward technology design and improved performance with the 6th gen Camaro:
-Introduction of the superb handling "Alpha" platform, wich was also used on the Cadillac ATS-V & CTS-V sport cars.
-Improved eLSD on the SS1LE & ZL1 models.
-Lighter weight


On 2016 MT's driver's car they commented by far, the lower SS1LE model broke all the speed, handling, braking, laps records of the previous 5th gen performance models (ZL1 & Z28 track prep Camaro that came with Trofeo track tires, high performance brakes and suspension), the 6th gen SS1LE was riding on just Summer street tires and using a streetable magnetic suspension to give you an idea. If the 6th gen SS1LE beated the mighty 5th gen Camaro Z28, the actual ZL1 demolishes that prior Z28 model.

Nurburgring lap times:
6th gen ZL1 1LE: 7:10.04
6th gen ZL1: 7:29.60
5th gen Z28: 7:37.4


Don't get me wrong I loved the looks of my 5th gen Camaro ZL1 muscle car. The Z28 would be great if you are looking for a Classical limited edition Camaro.
But if you are looking for improved performance it would not compare with the 6th gen ZL1 & SS1LE Camaro.


Information from MT's 2016 Best drivers car:

6th gen Camaro SS1LE:

0-60: 4 secs = to the 5th gen Z28

1/4 mile: 12.4. VS 5th gen Z28: 12.3 secs

60-0: 94 feet (new record). 5th gen Z28: 100 foot

Lat. Accel. : 1.09 (new record), 5th gen Z28: 1.08

Figure eight : 23.3 (new record). 5th gen Z28: 23.6

Lap time: 1:33.77 (new record). 5th gen Z28: 1.38



Attached is the picture of my not forgoten 5th gen 2014 Camaro ZL1.

This breakdown is a bit off. For the ring, the Z/28 run was in the rain for like 30% of the run; the estimates are that the Z/28 would've been 6 seconds faster (if not more) had it not been for the rain (GM guess was ~6 seconds). Basically, it would've been *really* close to the standard 6th gen ZL1 (which is impressive for 145 bhp less really). I wouldve been curious what the 6th gen SS 1LE would do at the ring, but afaik, they never ran it there. Its an impressive ride as well, especially for having even less power (gotta love power to weight).

6th gen SS 1LE is really a drivers race though; thanks to the lighter weight, its able to hang quite well. There are races where the Z/28 stomps it (I've seen up to ~4 sec difference in times w/ Z/28 on top), but I've seen other races where the SS 1LE *just* bumps it out (Laguna Seca run for example it beat the Z/28 by like .04 seconds). I'm not sure where this 1:33.77 lap time you mention came from (MT best, but not officially logged, run was 1:37.77), but the 1.38 reference for the Z/28 is how much it lowered the previous record for a camaro (from motortrend):

"Along came the marginally slower yet hardcore 7.0-liter, 505-hp Z/28. It managed a 4.0-second 0-60 time and a 12.3 quarter mile, but with its racy Pirelli P Zero Trofeo tires and brutish suspension, it was capable of 100-foot stops, 1.08 g, and a 23.6-second figure eight. It lowered the Camaro-best lap time by 1.38 seconds and in doing so earned our 2014 Best Driver's Car title."


These were the motortrend numbers (this is actually the laguna seca run):


Make & Model = X:XX.XX ($ as tested price)
McLaren 570S = 1:34.58 ($219,770)
Shelby GT350R = 1:36.11 ($66,990 + $25,000 mentioned in video)
Porsche 911 Carrera S = 1:36.44 ($140,465)
Chevy Camaro SS 1LE = 1:37.78 ($45,700)
Dodge Viper ACR = 1:31.58 ($131,990)
Mercedes AMG GT S = 1:35.30 ($169,450)
Audi R8 V10 (Plus) = 1:34.23 ($198,850)
Acura NSX = 1:36.36 ($197,400)
Jag F-Type SVR = 1:38.75 ($147,945)
Nissan GT-R = 1:37.08 ($112,585)
BMW M4 GTS = 1:37.66 ($135,195)
Aston V12 Vantage S = 1:41.77 ($211,910)

Past Times for referencing

2015
Porsche GT4 = 1:37.43
Caddy ATS-V = 1:39.65
Caddy CTS-V = 1:38.52
C7 Z06 = 1:38.60 (Engine Failure, No Boost @ Competition)
C7 Z06 (Z07 pkg) = 1:33.05 (Head 2 Head vs. ACR)

2014
Camaro Z/28 = 1:37.82

2013
Porsche 911 Carrera 4S = 1:39.19


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mcla...t-drivers-car/

[Maro_89]

Originally Posted by pauly1119

Money is probably safer with the Z28 but the ZL1 is a better car but the ZL1 will lose more value then the Z28 so I guess its what your looking for.

See that’s the thing with the research I have done. It seems like you have to add more money into the Z28 because the LS7 heads may be a concern with it so if I were to get the car I would have to put money to change its heads and obviously the carbon ceramic brakes and rotors are more expensive to replace than the 6th gen ZL1s. Parts are harder to find for the Z28 and if you are able to find them I’m sure your gunna have to really fork over some coin for it.

The rotors are delicate and I would have to find a special shop for someone to work on it and know what they are doing if they were to take the wheels off. But if I really liked the car maybe I could manage all those things. It’s quite a decision to make and I have to wonder if it’s worth it. I know they both need to be tooken care of very well with a little more emphasis on the Z28 since it’s different.

[BoilerKB]

Originally Posted by Maro_89

Even with 700 HP in the Z28 the ZL1 is still faster?

Tires, chassis, suspension, brakes...that has more to do with making a car go fast around a track vs raw horsepower. All those things are better (maybe not tires) with the Alpha platform 6th gen.

To me, and I'm no one except a guy who just bought a new ZL1, it comes down to: How comfortable do you feel in each car, both when you're driving it aggressively and those days where you just want to cruise? You're going to be driving it every day so you'd better be comfortable in it. This, to me, is by far the most important question. I drove a manual car daily for 3 years in ATL and in the end, it got to be work and not fun. This is why I have my ZL1 for a daily, and my WS6 6-speed for days when I want to wring something out.

I also think, given your questions and responses and like a few have said, a ZL1 1LE could be your sweet spot.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by HoodCheck

My ZL1 is an A10 model, so its different automagically from that. To be honest, the feel isn't that much different, except the normal ZL1 doesn't follow the road as much, and doesn't sit quite as low, and that clearance is handy (you still can't clear a curb when parking with either though). But then again, I never found the Z/28 to be much different in the typical roughness of the ride than any other camaro I've owned (which is probably ~20; I honestly don't remember...a camaro was the first car I've bought, and I've had a camaro almost constantly since 96).
Honestly I don't know HOW anyone thinks the ZL1 is more comfortable. The seats are more cramped (or at least they feel that way), they don't lean back as much, you just plain don't have as much space....I personally find the seats themselves pretty uncomfortable, and the one time I drove the car for a bit over an hour, my back actually hurt (I have no back problems or anything). Thats why I always say I'd never want to drive the thing for an hour or more (well, that and just general discomfort). The 5th gen recaros were much more comfortable, and cooler looking, imo...just not as many features (I personally have never used any heated or cooled seating features in any car I've owned that have them, so I could care less about that).
The feel of the NA power I like better as well; its not as quick to get to speed (even if you had the exact same hp/tq, it wouldn't "feel" as quick), even if you were to run a 1/4 at the same time, that supercharger will get you moving off the line much quicker, but NA just has a more old school feeling to it (needs a carb though lol).
All just my opinion though of course.

From how you talk about cars and what you like about them, I'm surprised you got an auto. Have you ever driven a 6 MT ZLE? I'd be curious as to what you think about it then. No matter how great the A10 is, I'd get bored with it if my car was an auto as well.

My current ZLE is the only Camaro I've owned. But, I've test driven a few 5th gens etc. I really don't see a lot of difference in interior space, both are pretty cramped etc. I can see how living with both could change one's opinion though. I've driven my ZLE on 3 hour weekend trips and compared to previous sports/sporty cars the seats are the most comfortable I've ever had. Next were my GT350 Recaros and my least favorite were my M3/4 seats. I'm just shy of 6 feet and around 200 pounds FWIW.

OP, I think you need to get your hands on either as you can tell it is very personal as to what one will like/dislike from either car.

[Fast02Z06]

I drove my Zl1 (2018 manual) to lake Havasu from Houston last week and had the choice of driving my Z/28 (ac). It was a 1.5 day drive and imho the zl1 was extremely comfortable and I did not experience any pain, aches, etc. Take into account I’m 34 and athletic (lean) so that might play a part to a degree but I would not consider taking the z/28 on that kinda journey although it’s very reliable and fun. In touring mode it’s not as comfortable as the Zl1, the ride harshness, and bone jarring stiff suspension is not intended for long drives (again imho). Mine is heads/cam/headers/etc so it’s extremely close power wise to my Zl1. If anybody wants to see some combat between the 2 pm me and I’ll send the link but won’t post it here since it’s filmed in Mexico and some of the haters will have an aneurysm.

[CW3SF]

I drove my ZL1 from East Tennessee to Denver 1300 miles in 2 days. Super comfortable and I do have back problems. I have owned a multitude of sports cars both foreign and domestic and the ZL1 is easily the most comfortable to drive for long distances.

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by Maro_89

See that’s the thing with the research I have done. It seems like you have to add more money into the Z28 because the LS7 heads may be a concern with it so if I were to get the car I would have to put money to change its heads and obviously the carbon ceramic brakes and rotors are more expensive to replace than the 6th gen ZL1s. Parts are harder to find for the Z28 and if you are able to find them I’m sure your gunna have to really fork over some coin for it.

The rotors are delicate and I would have to find a special shop for someone to work on it and know what they are doing if they were to take the wheels off. But if I really liked the car maybe I could manage all those things. It’s quite a decision to make and I have to wonder if it’s worth it. I know they both need to be tooken care of very well with a little more emphasis on the Z28 since it’s different.

The head fix isnt a bad thing to do; its about 2k (labor quotes I had gotten before I had it done were ~$800 for labor). But imo if you look at the logistics...right now, during this pandemic, the ZL1 prices are TANKING. The Z/28 prices have actually gone up a bit. The brakes, if street driving, will last you literally FOREVER. There are proven 100k mile tests where the rotors were fine. The brake pads are about $950 for front/rear set, but even those are going to last you literally 10s of 1000s of miles. The rotors are expensive, but you won't likely need to replace those as long as you don't screw them up with tire cleaner or chipping them of anything removing/adding wheels.

[HoodCheck]

Originally Posted by minn19

From how you talk about cars and what you like about them, I'm surprised you got an auto. Have you ever driven a 6 MT ZLE? I'd be curious as to what you think about it then. No matter how great the A10 is, I'd get bored with it if my car was an auto as well.

My current ZLE is the only Camaro I've owned. But, I've test driven a few 5th gens etc. I really don't see a lot of difference in interior space, both are pretty cramped etc. I can see how living with both could change one's opinion though. I've driven my ZLE on 3 hour weekend trips and compared to previous sports/sporty cars the seats are the most comfortable I've ever had. Next were my GT350 Recaros and my least favorite were my M3/4 seats. I'm just shy of 6 feet and around 200 pounds FWIW.

OP, I think you need to get your hands on either as you can tell it is very personal as to what one will like/dislike from either car.

I actually didn't go drive the ZLE. I don't like the look of it. I think overall from a driving standpoint, I would've liked it better than the standard ZL1; but I would've had to ditch the ugly honda/subaru/<insert ricer brand here> aero (canards and spoiler namely). I nearly pulled the trigger on a ZLE (a 19 grey one, and was also looking at a blue '19). In the end, I just couldn't do that aero package.
The A10 is a SUPER nice transmission; I actually like it better than manual (manual gets old to me honestly). I didn't get bored from the auto, I just find the car itself boring and uncomfortable; its fast, but you don't really feel it as much. Some people like that, I don't. All in all, it just doesn't give me the butterflies to look at or drive. I haven't driven the thing in weeks; it just sits in the garage doing nothing....honestly, I don't even miss driving it at all. For me, all my purchase of it did is reaffirm to me that no matter whats under the hood (I have also owned a '16 2SS that I got rid of like 3 mos after I got it) it won't change the fact that I just can't "fall in love" with a 6th gen.

ENTIRELY agree that its going to be a matter of what the OP really likes/wants. I am typically in the minority about liking the 5th gens over the 6th gens, as can be seen in this thread

Don't get me wrong guys; the ZL1 is a nice car, just turned out to be not my cup of tea.
Anyone in FL who wants to chunk 49k my way (basically, paying it off from the lender), can take the it. I'll even keep the dark/smoked taillights on it, you can take the optima in it, and you can have the stock taillights (and battery), the cosmetic goodies I haven't installed yet (mosaic black spoiler, smoked rear reflectors, the mosaic black mirrors)...whatever I have for it (I think I also have some ZL1 mats for it).


@Fast02Z06 - Until a foot injury about 5 mos ago, I too was a nice lean 39 yr old who worked out for at least 2 hrs daily, with zero health problems, but it still bugs my back. Post injury, then pandemic, I've put some weight on lol (pizza and beer; WAY different than my normal diet). Once my foot heals I'll get back to it though.

[LT4Greg]

I find the Recaro seats in my ZL1 are comfortable and supportive for me as I have back problems from lifting heavy boxes and items in my younger years at work and home.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by HoodCheck

This breakdown is a bit off. For the ring, the Z/28 run was in the rain for like 30% of the run; the estimates are that the Z/28 would've been 6 seconds faster (if not more) had it not been for the rain (GM guess was ~6 seconds). Basically, it would've been *really* close to the standard 6th gen ZL1 (which is impressive for 145 bhp less really). I wouldve been curious what the 6th gen SS 1LE would do at the ring, but afaik, they never ran it there. Its an impressive ride as well, especially for having even less power (gotta love power to weight).

6th gen SS 1LE is really a drivers race though; thanks to the lighter weight, its able to hang quite well. There are races where the Z/28 stomps it (I've seen up to ~4 sec difference in times w/ Z/28 on top), but I've seen other races where the SS 1LE *just* bumps it out (Laguna Seca run for example it beat the Z/28 by like .04 seconds). I'm not sure where this 1:33.77 lap time you mention came from (MT best, but not officially logged, run was 1:37.77), but the 1.38 reference for the Z/28 is how much it lowered the previous record for a camaro (from motortrend):

"Along came the marginally slower yet hardcore 7.0-liter, 505-hp Z/28. It managed a 4.0-second 0-60 time and a 12.3 quarter mile, but with its racy Pirelli P Zero Trofeo tires and brutish suspension, it was capable of 100-foot stops, 1.08 g, and a 23.6-second figure eight. It lowered the Camaro-best lap time by 1.38 seconds and in doing so earned our 2014 Best Driver's Car title."


These were the motortrend numbers (this is actually the laguna seca run):


Make & Model = X:XX.XX ($ as tested price)
McLaren 570S = 1:34.58 ($219,770)
Shelby GT350R = 1:36.11 ($66,990 + $25,000 mentioned in video)
Porsche 911 Carrera S = 1:36.44 ($140,465)
Chevy Camaro SS 1LE = 1:37.78 ($45,700)
Dodge Viper ACR = 1:31.58 ($131,990)
Mercedes AMG GT S = 1:35.30 ($169,450)
Audi R8 V10 (Plus) = 1:34.23 ($198,850)
Acura NSX = 1:36.36 ($197,400)
Jag F-Type SVR = 1:38.75 ($147,945)
Nissan GT-R = 1:37.08 ($112,585)
BMW M4 GTS = 1:37.66 ($135,195)
Aston V12 Vantage S = 1:41.77 ($211,910)

Past Times for referencing

2015
Porsche GT4 = 1:37.43
Caddy ATS-V = 1:39.65
Caddy CTS-V = 1:38.52
C7 Z06 = 1:38.60 (Engine Failure, No Boost @ Competition)
C7 Z06 (Z07 pkg) = 1:33.05 (Head 2 Head vs. ACR)

2014
Camaro Z/28 = 1:37.82

2013
Porsche 911 Carrera 4S = 1:39.19


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mcla...t-drivers-car/

You are right the lap time at Laguna Seca for the '17 SS1LE is 1:37.77. It was just a typo from my side.