[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I'm not talking about heat soak. If anyone wants to run their best time they won't be hot lapping the car. The Camaro is superior in cooling design we all know that.
When you omit the private owner runs i will agree on the Camaro being much more consistent.

Heat soak is a condition that can be related to the design of the car and the engine. Experience tells me that DOHC engines heat soak easier and faster than pushrod engines. And when they do it takes longer to cool down. Which would help explain why conditions will affect a GT500 much more so than a ZL1. Because the 500 will heat soak faster and longer.

I initially did not include private owner runs because it would throw everything off if I included every yahoo who goes to the track and doesn't know what they're doing and runs a 15.5. Private owner runs have way more variables. And a very wide range of operator ability. And there is always the question of honesty...seeing as how a lot of people forget certain mods or fail to disclose all mods. So that is why I only considered the claimed times vs what both cars have been doing in testing.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

First part you are correct, but second part I don't think you understand how a drag strip timer works unless you were totally sleeping at the light and had a 0.9 reaction time.

My drag strip has a delay on the timer during test and tune sessions. So when the tree lights up you have about 5 seconds. The timer starts as soon as you move or after the 5 seconds is up. During that particular run I lined up to far and had to roll back. So that threw me off my game. My reaction time suffered because of that. The guy I was up against was probably one of the best launchers I ever seen. He took off like a gun shot. And he was a good distance ahead of me for the majority of the run. In a video I have you can even see how far ahead of me he was. However the car he was in has no top end. They fall flat on their face. So I caught him at the end of the quarter mile. My time was 8 tenths faster than his even tho we crossed right about the same time.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

The GT500 is a cow of 2 ton car, weight plays a huge role in things wouldn't you agree?
You're also consistently talking about the slower times it runs that's what is called cherry picking and it doesn't erase the faster times another car runs.

"ER MERGERT THE GT FIVER HUNNERT IS AN 11 SECOND CAR FER 100K!!"

Can we call the ZL1 a 12 second car since I've seen those times in real life on real tracks and so have you with your own car
No I won't call it a 12 second car because of some bad runs, but you're going to erase all the 10 second runs from your memory the GT500 has?

YES ON A PREPPED SURFACE, why the hell wouldn't a drag strip with a tree and timers be prepped? (save for the morons that do no-prep and destroy their cars)

I've been to the track a few times and seen all kinds of cars run different numbers than people thought they would run.

You can call the ZL1 whatever you want. I couldn't care less. But it is clear that the 500 is struggling to do what they claim. Being off by a few tenths is one thing. Being off by a second is kinda weird doncha think? I mean, the 500 is the only 10.6 sec car that does 11.3 and 11.5, LOL!!

And again, what's been going on these past 6 years that Ford still can't beat the ZL1? What were they doing all this time? This was supposed to be their answer to the ZL1. Why is it that they have a car costing $94K and has CF components and 760 HP and they can't beat a 650 HP ZLE that costs $20K less. Can you answer that?

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You can call the ZL1 whatever you want. I couldn't care less. But it is clear that the 500 is struggling to do what they claim. Being off by a few tenths is one thing. Being off by a second is kinda weird doncha think? I mean, the 500 is the only 10.6 sec car that does 11.3 and 11.5, LOL!!

And again, what's been going on these past 6 years that Ford still can't beat the ZL1? What were they doing all this time? This was supposed to be their answer to the ZL1. Why is it that they have a car costing $94K and has CF components and 760 HP and they can't beat a 650 HP ZLE that costs $20K less. Can you answer that?

Hate to burst your bubble (not really) but you know you can go on youtube right now and find any model car running horrible times on the dragstrip right?
Yep, Corvettes, Ferrari's, Lambo's, Mustangs, Dodge's of all kinds take your pick you will find some bad times. Crazy right!? Even for cars that aren't affected by changes in weather!

If I worked at ford I could probably answer your second question but I am sure any conspiracy you come up with would be much more entertaining than my own

if price and speed is all that matters, I think this is the best bang for the buck.

https://www.racingjunk.com/Dragsters...dragster-.html

9 second runs for 10k!? why isn't this car of the year right now?
It beats both the GT500, C8 and ZL1 in value!

And this one too, 8 seconds for 50k!? why did you not buy this yet?

https://www.racingjunk.com/Complete-...d-mustang.html

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Haha yep. I said when the first initial drives came out, and the pricing came out. the CFTP better be some earth shattering performance to justify that price tag. We don't have any lap times yet for the two compared together but sounds like or C&D implies its close enough. I have tried to refrain from saying anything about the CFTP till we got more reviews/lap times. This one doesn't seem to justify its cost at all. the one where it was a few tenths behind the 185K GT3RS sure made it seem worth it BUT how would the ZLE have faired in the same scenario. So I leaning more and more to the CFTP not worth the price of admission

From everything I have read thus far, the GT500 just feels like it is a straight line car that can handle decently. I said before that there is a difference between a track car and a car that does well on certain tracks. The reviews of the GT500 on track has all heavily featured the acceleration of that car more so than the actual cornering ability. It's like they are soo impressed with how it accelerates that they think it handles well. And it looks like that is what the 500 is doing, getting thru the corners so that it can barrel down the straights at full speed. And I don't think this is the way to beat a car as well developed as a ZL1 or ZLE.

I do think Ford tried. And I do think they took the S550 class as far as it can possibly go in cornering. I think they benchmarked the ZL1 and went back to the drawing board and stalled the GT500 as long as possible to get it as close as possible to the ZL1. But I do not think that is enough. Not when 760 HP still lets you down.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I got the impression from reading the article that the 500 lost on the track to the ZLE. I want some one to take these two cars back to VIR honestly.

The wording certainly led many to think that way.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

OK so I didn't miss the laptimes. If they don't release them it HAS to be because Ford will not allow it, but i really hope they are just generating more views and will be posting another article.


I'm not talking about heat soak. If anyone wants to run their best time they won't be hot lapping the car. The Camaro is superior in cooling design we all know that.
When you omit the private owner runs i will agree on the Camaro being much more consistent.


Yeah he was. Me running 12 flat in my Hellcat was a major factor in me leaving the manual purist club. You just can't beat these autos now...


100% hilarious


YES I can't wait for these excuses!


First part you are correct, but second part I don't think you understand how a drag strip timer works unless you were totally sleeping at the light and had a 0.9 reaction time.

I want to agree with your sentiments on the manual club but the zl1 and hellcats have been especially bad as far as people being able to run good times with manual versions. However there have been plenty of 10 second c6 z06s and zr1s as well as c7 z's. So while they're definately harder to make go fast it's still possible and super fun/frustrating to figure out. They just take a while to figure out but with every car having an auto version these days most don't bother to figure out the manuals anymore. Also for roll racing or anything that doesn't require a launch manuals are still fine.

As much as I like manual cars I do see why some prefer autos in these high horsepower cars, 600hp+, but for regular GTs and Ss's sub 500 hp power levels manuals are still fine and can be very competitive with a proper driver.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

The GT500 is a cow of 2 ton car, weight plays a huge role in things wouldn't you agree?
You're also consistently talking about the slower times it runs that's what is called cherry picking and it doesn't erase the faster times another car runs.

"ER MERGERT THE GT FIVER HUNNERT IS AN 11 SECOND CAR FER 100K!!"

Can we call the ZL1 a 12 second car since I've seen those times in real life on real tracks and so have you with your own car
No I won't call it a 12 second car because of some bad runs, but you're going to erase all the 10 second runs from your memory the GT500 has?

YES ON A PREPPED SURFACE, why the hell wouldn't a drag strip with a tree and timers be prepped? (save for the morons that do no-prep and destroy their cars)

I've been to the track a few times and seen all kinds of cars run different numbers than people thought they would run.

Why do you say no prep destroys a car?

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Why do you say no prep destroys a car?

I mean the multiple crashes that result from it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

I mean the multiple crashes that result from it.

Maybe for people who don't know what they're doing. Or for cars that are not built well enough and have engines that overpower the chassis/suspension. Camaros and Corvettes typically have much better control than Mustangs. And we are seeing that much as true.

"Toss it around, and the Shelby feels smaller and lighter than it is, but it's also a bit skittish and less forgiving. It always feels like one false move, one mistake, one miscalculation, and you could easily end up in a ditch."

"Although both cars offer the kind of speed better suited for the track, the Camaro is easier to drive quickly. The fun is more accessible and therefore more easily enjoyed. But the sacrifice for all that stability is ride comfort."

Remember, much to your chagrin and despite your protests, the Camaro was very well built and had a LOT of attention put into the chassis. It was built specifically instead of the 500 which was built in more of a piecemeal manner.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Maybe for people who don't know what they're doing. Or for cars that are not built well enough and have engines that overpower the chassis/suspension. Camaros and Corvettes typically have much better control than Mustangs. And we are seeing that much as true.

"Toss it around, and the Shelby feels smaller and lighter than it is, but it's also a bit skittish and less forgiving. It always feels like one false move, one mistake, one miscalculation, and you could easily end up in a ditch."

"Although both cars offer the kind of speed better suited for the track, the Camaro is easier to drive quickly. The fun is more accessible and therefore more easily enjoyed. But the sacrifice for all that stability is ride comfort."

Remember, much to your chagrin and despite your protests, the Camaro was very well built and had a LOT of attention put into the chassis. It was built specifically instead of the 500 which was built in more of a piecemeal manner.

Ironic that the "parts bin", "truck engine" "hand-me-down" car is better sorted and more stable.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Ironic that the "parts bin", "truck engine" "hand-me-down" car is better sorted and more stable.

Exactly. Oh and don't forget it the LT4 is like an asthmatic and the DOHC Mustang engines are athletic...

So basically the GT500 was supposed to hurt feelings and be a supercar killer and change the game and stomp the ZL1...and now it can't beat the C8 in the quarter mile, can barely beat the ZL1 in the quarter mile, and the ZLE surpasses it. So what is it good for? Being the newest and most expensive way to lose? A supercar killer...yet the same guys who call it that do not consider the ZLE to be a supercar...and the 500 can't even get a clear victory over the ZLE. This athletic Mustang engine in the GT500 lost almost a second during the 2nd lap against the GT3 and by the time they hit the 3rd lap it was down by a full second. What gives? LOL!! This was the best that Ford could do? Oh it blows by the ZL1 after the quarter mile...lol...that's called a ricer fly by last I checked!! Hahahaha!! The most expensive ricer fly by ever!! Man this is what they've been waiting for all this time.

[BlaqWhole]

GT500...4th lap...

https://www.facebook.com/IAmTaiBoogi...8994597665312/

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Exactly. Oh and don't forget it the LT4 is like an asthmatic and the DOHC Mustang engines are athletic...

So basically the GT500 was supposed to hurt feelings and be a supercar killer and change the game and stomp the ZL1...and now it can't beat the C8 in the quarter mile, can barely beat the ZL1 in the quarter mile, and the ZLE surpasses it. So what is it good for? Being the newest and most expensive way to lose? A supercar killer...yet the same guys who call it that do not consider the ZLE to be a supercar...and the 500 can't even get a clear victory over the ZLE. This athletic Mustang engine in the GT500 lost almost a second during the 2nd lap against the GT3 and by the time they hit the 3rd lap it was down by a full second. What gives? LOL!! This was the best that Ford could do? Oh it blows by the ZL1 after the quarter mile...lol...that's called a ricer fly by last I checked!! Hahahaha!! The most expensive ricer fly by ever!! Man this is what they've been waiting for all this time.

GT 500 is an ego and wallet killer... Ford fans that is. What I find ironic is after years of alleged product development and benchmarking Ford underdelivers. GM decides they want to compete with European manufacturers and they benchmark their competition and hit a home run aka Alpha platform. Power is great only if the chassis can make efficient use of it if not, adding more isn't going to bandaid a poor design. Take for instance C7 Vette, chevy produced a good chassis and as is typical of most auto manufactures they continue to make improvements throughout the product lifecycle. Using the lessons learned through racing and continued testing to focus resources on the areas that need improvement.

C7 debuts in base form with 455HP, which increases with the release of the Z06 and in the final swan song for C7 the ZR1. Now we are at 755HP in what is basically the same platform, so a ~300HP bump in power without a re-design of the chassis or for that matter even a roll cage. Amazing how a now aged C7 chassis design is able to outrun Ford's be all end all GT Supercar for ~1/4 the price. Especially when you consider Ford GT benchmarks included Ferrari. Of course, the Ford fans will point to the collectability factor and all the normal excuses for overpaying for less performance, the same is true for GT500. To further highlight the fact that Ford is behind in chassis development consider that Gen 5 Z/28 still posts faster lap times on C&D LL than GT350R. And we all know Alpha chassis is better than Zeta, add 50HP and or better tires to SS 1LE and I wonder if it also beats GT350R at VIR Grand course? Finally, I have to wonder how much the GT500 will close the ~16 second Nurburgring difference between ZL1 1LE and GT350R. Or the ~7 second gap on VIR Grand course. Any predictions?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by LESS1

GT 500 is an ego and wallet killer... Ford fans that is. What I find ironic is after years of alleged product development and benchmarking Ford underdelivers. GM decides they want to compete with European manufacturers and they benchmark their competition and hit a home run aka Alpha platform. Power is great only if the chassis can make efficient use of it if not, adding more isn't going to bandaid a poor design. Take for instance C7 Vette, chevy produced a good chassis and as is typical of most auto manufactures they continue to make improvements throughout the product lifecycle. Using the lessons learned through racing and continued testing to focus resources on the areas that need improvement.

C7 debuts in base form with 455HP, which increases with the release of the Z06 and in the final swan song for C7 the ZR1. Now we are at 755HP in what is basically the same platform, so a ~300HP bump in power without a re-design of the chassis or for that matter even a roll cage. Amazing how a now aged C7 chassis design is able to outrun Ford's be all end all GT Supercar for ~1/4 the price. Especially when you consider Ford GT benchmarks included Ferrari. Of course, the Ford fans will point to the collectability factor and all the normal excuses for overpaying for less performance, the same is true for GT500. To further highlight the fact that Ford is behind in chassis development consider that Gen 5 Z/28 still posts faster lap times on C&D LL than GT350R. And we all know Alpha chassis is better than Zeta, add 50HP and or better tires to SS 1LE and I wonder if it also beats GT350R at VIR Grand course? Finally, I have to wonder how much the GT500 will close the ~16 second Nurburgring difference between ZL1 1LE and GT350R. Or the ~7 second gap on VIR Grand course. Any predictions?

Seriously doubt we will ever see a ring time for the 500. I'm not 100% convinced the that base 500 will beat the 350R on very many tracks to be honest.

CFTP SHOULD beat the 350R on just about every track. Will it? I don't know but it absolutely should. Now I'm convinced that it wont beat the ZLE on very many tracks if any. So I'll say it will narrow the 7 second gap by 4 seconds. Just a guess on my part.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by LESS1

GT 500 is an ego and wallet killer... Ford fans that is. What I find ironic is after years of alleged product development and benchmarking Ford underdelivers. GM decides they want to compete with European manufacturers and they benchmark their competition and hit a home run aka Alpha platform. Power is great only if the chassis can make efficient use of it if not, adding more isn't going to bandaid a poor design. Take for instance C7 Vette, chevy produced a good chassis and as is typical of most auto manufactures they continue to make improvements throughout the product lifecycle. Using the lessons learned through racing and continued testing to focus resources on the areas that need improvement.

C7 debuts in base form with 455HP, which increases with the release of the Z06 and in the final swan song for C7 the ZR1. Now we are at 755HP in what is basically the same platform, so a ~300HP bump in power without a re-design of the chassis or for that matter even a roll cage. Amazing how a now aged C7 chassis design is able to outrun Ford's be all end all GT Supercar for ~1/4 the price. Especially when you consider Ford GT benchmarks included Ferrari. Of course, the Ford fans will point to the collectability factor and all the normal excuses for overpaying for less performance, the same is true for GT500. To further highlight the fact that Ford is behind in chassis development consider that Gen 5 Z/28 still posts faster lap times on C&D LL than GT350R. And we all know Alpha chassis is better than Zeta, add 50HP and or better tires to SS 1LE and I wonder if it also beats GT350R at VIR Grand course? Finally, I have to wonder how much the GT500 will close the ~16 second Nurburgring difference between ZL1 1LE and GT350R. Or the ~7 second gap on VIR Grand course. Any predictions?

Take a GT PP2, throw an auto DCT on it, slap a blower on it, and give it some coolers, and voila, GT500. That is what it seems like to me. I doubt Ford put much more into it other than throwing CF stuff everywhere.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Seriously doubt we will ever see a ring time for the 500. I'm not 100% convinced the that base 500 will beat the 350R on very many tracks to be honest.

CFTP SHOULD beat the 350R on just about every track. Will it? I don't know but it absolutely should. Now I'm convinced that it wont beat the ZLE on very many tracks if any. So I'll say it will narrow the 7 second gap by 4 seconds. Just a guess on my part.

I'm in agreement with you that the R should beat the Base 500 around most tracks. The CF 500 will beat the R on just about every track. The ZL1 will beat everything except for the CF 500 on just about every track...and I'd be bold enough to say the standard ZL1 will beat even the CF 500 on some tracks. As far as the ZLE and CF, well the Shelby will need to be on the fastest tracks AND stay close in the corners to win. If those 2 conditions are not met then I doubt any Shelby will beat the ZLE on any track at all. Which will be cool to know that Ford could not beat the ZLE on any track at all and at best could only manage a 2-3 tenths win in the quarter.

And that being the case, the Shelby is in even more of a pickle because faster cars are on the way. Each of which will most likely be able to be optioned in cheaper. The GS and Z06 at base MSRP and without any addons should come in a good deal under $94K. I'd say maybe around $85K for the 1LZ Z06. And about $72 for the 1LT GS. The GS might not beat the CF 500 around a track but it will most definitely give it some scars to take home. And in testing the GS will probably hit 10s while the 500 will still struggle in the mid-low 11s. The Z06 is going to wipe it out completely in every area regardless of track, conditions, whatever. I'm betting that even on a prepped strip the Z06 is going to spank every Mustang that finds itself in the opposite lane. And it won't even be necessary to test them around a track. While being cheaper. Not a good look for the M6G crowd.