[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

BlaqWhole Why are you so caught up on what a car can do on a unprepped surface. I like to play on the street just as much as anyone. But in 25 years of driving I can count on one hand how many stop light runs I've had 0-60 or so on. Highway rolls are where 99% of racing on the street happens.

Drag strip 1/4 times and mph is what we should compare too. With that you have to compare DA. You keep bringing up las vegas times for GT500. Those times were run in 3000 plus DA. The cars were never turned off and the drivers only had 2 runs with a set launch rpm that ford set of 1200 rpm.

The GT 500 is a 10.6 car as of right now, the first car delivered ran that with 1000 miles on the clock. I'm sure the time will get lower.

The ZL1 is 10.9 car, very impressive for the way it handles and hp it has.

I’m not BlaqWhole, but I’ll provide my answer to it since it seems to keep coming up. Hope others chime in too. Probably a bunch of different perspectives on this.

When I was young and stupid and raced on the streets, it was almost always from a stoplight (ie: 0 - something on an unprepared surface) or “midnight racing” in locations undisclosed but well-known to the street rod crowd. From a standing start to a specific location, usually flagged by someone. Insert scene from “American Graffiti” here. The times I’ve actually roll raced are so few that I literally remember most of them.

Now I spend most of my time either running quarters at Milan or sticking close enough to friends who have track access at M1 Concourse to get invited out on Friends & Family days. So prepped track times are also important to me. I leave the street racing to those younger and dumber.

Just my own perspective.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

BlaqWhole Why are you so caught up on what a car can do on a unprepped surface. I like to play on the street just as much as anyone. But in 25 years of driving I can count on one hand how many stop light runs I've had 0-60 or so on. Highway rolls are where 99% of racing on the street happens.

Drag strip 1/4 times and mph is what we should compare too. With that you have to compare DA. You keep bringing up las vegas times for GT500. Those times were run in 3000 plus DA. The cars were never turned off and the drivers only had 2 runs with a set launch rpm that ford set of 1200 rpm.

The GT 500 is a 10.6 car as of right now, the first car delivered ran that with 1000 miles on the clock. I'm sure the time will get lower.

The ZL1 is 10.9 car, very impressive for the way it handles and hp it has.

The GT500 will be a 10.6 car but only in extremely favorable conditions, not on the street , in average DA on less than perfectly prepped tracks or in other words the real world. The GT500 also is underrated by two different dyno tests so far making that car 130 horses stronger than the ZL1. Ford had to go way overboard and spend so many years building the GT500 to out 1/4 mile mile the OLD ZL1. Lets see what it does against the Old ZL1 1LE A10 on the well known road course tracks for a closer comparo. Oh yeah, Ford doesnt chase track times

[bradmo9]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I’m not BlaqWhole, but I’ll provide my answer to it since it seems to keep coming up. Hope others chime in too. Probably a bunch of different perspectives on this.

When I was young and stupid and raced on the streets, it was almost always from a stoplight (ie: 0 - something on an unprepared surface) or “midnight racing” in locations undisclosed but well-known to the street rod crowd. From a standing start to a specific location, usually flagged by someone. Insert scene from “American Graffiti” here. The times I’ve actually roll raced are so few that I literally remember most of them.

Now I spend most of my time either running quarters at Milan or sticking close enough to friends who have track access at M1 Concourse to get invited out on Friends & Family days. So prepped track times are also important to me. I leave the street racing to those younger and dumber.

Just my own perspective.

I agree with you on the midnight racing But in that case its a setup race and I'm rolling on a drag radial, slick or what not. I'm talking about just driving around and getting caught at a stoplight then doing a 0-60 hit. It never happens for me or I don't have good timing.

[rocket403]

I have watched the MT tests and the guy that drives the Hellcat and the Redeye needs a driver mod, 11.9 in the Hellcat and 12.0 in the Redeye. If that's the best the MT can do with these cars then I have not interest in MT at all.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Absolutely going to be the case. And the base C8 will be beating it to 60 mph and 100 mph with ease and consistency on the street and on average prepped tracks in average DA conditions. Even better the C8 very consistently will be running 11.2 and 11.1 in the 1/4 right there with the mighty GT500 that is also dynoing closer to 780 horses.

It's already the case in an high horse power RWD vehicle. Why are we acting suprised the GT500 puts the power down better at a track than on the street? Here's examples of other RWD cars that struggle. CORVETTE ZR1 750hp It weighs 3300 yet struggles to run high 10s. The Camaro ZL1 fast list. The slowest guy is nearly in the 12s. The fastest time is high 10s. Thats not consistent. Redeyes run low 10s at atco. But magazines run 11.9s??? The Corvette went to mid engine because cars have reached the limits of RWD. Who doesn't expect corvettes next move will be AWD?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The biggest issue with the GT500 will be consistency. That much is obvious from the quarter mile times we have been seeing. On one end there are kids who claim to have never been on a track before but managed to wrangle a 760 HP car to a 10.6. On the other hand there are plenty of experienced journalists who were in the mid 11s. That is almost an entire second difference. Ford claims 10.7 with a note that it requires a prepped track. So off a track it will likely struggle against most cars that have less power. I think we'll see similar mid 11s with other mag tests. Maybe an 11.2 or 11 flat. But it seems that the name of the game these days will be balance and control over dumping HP on an already overwhelmed setup. The fact that when magazines test these cars the ZL1 is always right there hanging with them despite the huge power gap tells the story about getting the power to the ground effectively and efficiently. Sure, Hellcats and Redeyes and GT500s might be faster on the track where the conditions favor them. But in every other situation the conditions will not be to their advantage.

Adding to this, I'd like to see how the CF GT500 would do against a GTR considering the price of both.

I think Blaq fairly hit the nail on the head here. What we have seen in somewhat limited data is a wide range of times.

We have two passes in the 10.6 range at drag strips in lets say above average conditions

Ford Claims 10.7 on strip in ideal conditions

We have the times from the Press event where people had 1-3 passes in cars that were being hotlapped with times ranging from 10.80s to 11.4s on a drag strip

Then we have the first mag test on unprepped surface at 11.4

So to me, that tells me the GT500 will put the power down fine on the track. I don't think 10.6s will be the norm but I think at the track we will see more than a handful of 10 second passes. But on the street, like many other high powered RWD cars doesn't put it down as effectively. What we have seen is that it puts down better than the RE and Hellcat based on C&D times only, and that out in the wild the ZL1 has as good of a fighting chance as possible as does the C8.

The C8 we see, puts the power down insanely well no doubt thanks to the ME layout and the DCT and weighing 700 pounds less. Lets not forget that part when we praise the C8 lol.

So basically in short GT500 should be just fine at strip, its on the street where it will struggle.

Now lets get to see some lap times!

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

It's already the case in an high horse power RWD vehicle. Why are we acting suprised the GT500 puts the power down better at a track than on the street? Here's examples of other RWD cars that struggle. CORVETTE ZR1 750hp It weighs 3300 yet struggles to run high 10s. The Camaro ZL1 fast list. The slowest guy is nearly in the 12s. The fastest time is high 10s. Thats not consistent. Redeyes run low 10s at atco. But magazines run 11.9s??? The Corvette went to mid engine because cars have reached the limits of RWD. Who doesn't expect corvettes next move will be AWD?

You mean to say theres a difference between strip and street! /end sarcasm lol

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think Blaq fairly hit the nail on the head here. What we have seen in somewhat limited data is a wide range of times.

We have two passes in the 10.6 range at drag strips in lets say above average conditions

Ford Claims 10.7 on strip in ideal conditions

We have the times from the Press event where people had 1-3 passes in cars that were being hotlapped with times ranging from 10.80s to 11.4s on a drag strip

Then we have the first mag test on unprepped surface at 11.4

So to me, that tells me the GT500 will put the power down fine on the track. I don't think 10.6s will be the norm but I think at the track we will see more than a handful of 10 second passes. But on the street, like many other high powered RWD cars doesn't put it down as effectively. What we have seen is that it puts down better than the RE and Hellcat based on C&D times only, and that out in the wild the ZL1 has as good of a fighting chance as possible as does the C8.

The C8 we see, puts the power down insanely well no doubt thanks to the ME layout and the DCT and weighing 700 pounds less. Lets not forget that part when we praise the C8 lol.

So basically in short GT500 should be just fine at strip, its on the street where it will struggle.

Now lets get to see some lap times!



You mean to say theres a difference between strip and street! /end sarcasm lol

Ok so you understand? Because others talking about inconsistent performance seamed a little clueless to me. Its not a Ford thing. Its a high power/rwd thing. Well done Corvette for just giving up and going to whats proven to work.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Ok so you understand? Because others talking about inconsistent performance seamed a little clueless to me. Its not a Ford thing. Its a high power/rwd thing.

Yes I understand that a high hp RWD car is going to have difficulty on the street but do better on the strip lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

I agree with you on the midnight racing But in that case its a setup race and I'm rolling on a drag radial, slick or what not. I'm talking about just driving around and getting caught at a stoplight then doing a 0-60 hit. It never happens for me or I don't have good timing.

Could be different for different regions of the country. Where I live (Detroit & surrounding ‘burbs) hardly a day goes by when I’m driving my Camaro that I don’t get a stoplight challenge, usually from a Challenger or Charger. They’re freakin’ everywhere around here. The last time I stoplight raced, I roasted a guy who had just got his new Challenger R/T (5.7L Hemi). I was driving a BMW i3 EV. The last time I roll-raced it was also a Challenger R/T. Doesn’t seem fair to have run him in my Camaro, but he was getting on my last nerve pulling up next to me and rev-hopping on the expressway at 70 mph. Thing is, when I smoked him, I was driving top down and also trailering my bike. The picture below is exactly how I was rolling when the knucklehead challenged me. I actually took this picture when I arrived at the park about 10 minutes after running the Challenger.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Could be different for different regions of the country. Where I live (Detroit & surrounding ‘burbs) hardly a day goes by when I’m driving my Camaro that I don’t get a stoplight challenge, usually from a Challenger or Charger. They’re freakin’ everywhere around here. The last time I stoplight raced, I roasted a guy who had just got his new Challenger R/T (5.7L Hemi). I was driving a BMW i3 EV. The last time I roll-raced it was also a Challenger R/T. Doesn’t seem fair to have run him in my Camaro, but he was getting on my last nerve pulling up next to me and rev-hopping on the expressway at 70 mph. Thing is, when I smoked him, I was driving top down and also trailering my bike. The picture below is exactly how I was rolling when the knucklehead challenged me. I actually took this picture when I arrived at the park about 10 minutes after running the Challenger.

If he was in an RT. You probably could have beat him with the bicycle.

[rocket403]

I'll put my money on the RT I can get in the 13's with my RT

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

If he was in an RT. You probably could have beat him with the bicycle.

Originally Posted by rocket403

I'll put my money on the RT I can get in the 13's with my RT

Vs the bike, I’m sure. I’m 12.6 - 12.8 all day in the Camaro vert. If I’m in the 13s I’m cussin’ and deflating my tires.

[bradmo9]

That's exactly what my 18' crew 5.0 4x4 f150 runs with just mustang intake CAI, off road y-pipe and tune. It surprises a lot of people.

Beautiful car!!!

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Vs the bike, I’m sure. I’m 12.6 - 12.8 all day in the Camaro vert. If I’m in the 13s I’m cussin’ and deflating my tires.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Thanks - my ignore feature worked perfectly in this case

Originally Posted by bradmo9

BlaqWhole Why are you so caught up on what a car can do on a unprepped surface. I like to play on the street just as much as anyone. But in 25 years of driving I can count on one hand how many stop light runs I've had 0-60 or so on. Highway rolls are where 99% of racing on the street happens.

Drag strip 1/4 times and mph is what we should compare too. With that you have to compare DA. You keep bringing up las vegas times for GT500. Those times were run in 3000 plus DA. The cars were never turned off and the drivers only had 2 runs with a set launch rpm that ford set of 1200 rpm.

The GT 500 is a 10.6 car as of right now, the first car delivered ran that with 1000 miles on the clock. I'm sure the time will get lower.

The ZL1 is 10.9 car, very impressive for the way it handles and hp it has.

The C8 will likely be a high 10 sec car on the drag strip. Which is damn impressive.

One thing to remember as the cars of today get faster and faster. Going from a 10.9 to 10.6 takes more power than 11.9 to 11.6. S

I'm talking more about control and balance. The GT500 is fast no doubt. But it is not as balanced as the Corvette and Camaro. Not even close. It requires many different conditions to be met to run it's claimed "10.6" or "10.7". Remove one variable and those times fluctuate heavily. So what about locations where track prep is not possible? Or where DA will never be as good as it is in late year Northeast? That "10.7" becomes mid 11s. Or slower. And it will struggle and lose against cars with better control and balance.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

One thing to remember as the cars of today get faster and faster. Going from a 10.9 to 10.6 takes more power than 11.9 to 11.6. S

Not necessarily. Traction (AWD) and less weight can do the trick. There are lots of mid 10 sec GTRs and Bimmers out there with very little mods.