[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are we going into the trim discussion again? Your fastest available SS in any trim, is not as fast as the fastest available GT, despite having less weight and a significant torque advantage. It is lacking.

All you do is repeat yourself over and over again.

Ok so Ford made the Mustang fast in a straight line. So did Dodge with the Challenger. Congrats on doing the easiest thing to a car that any manufacturer can do. If you recall the 350Z was fast in a straight line...faster than Mustang GTs. So was the Honda Accord coupe. The 370Z was closer to the Mustang GT than the Mustang GT was to the Camaro. The Challenger was almost a full second faster than the lightedt fastest Mustang GT. The GT350R was the slowest yet most expensive car in the 6th Gen years.

So you really have nothing to talk shit about. No version of any V8 Camaro was slower than any Honda Accord in any year they both were produced. That is as low as it gets and the Mustang GT is the only Pony Car that has that mark. No matter how fast the Mustang gets, there still was a point in time when a Honda Accord kicked it's ass.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are we going into the trim discussion again? Your fastest available SS in any trim, is not as fast as the fastest available GT, despite having less weight and a significant torque advantage. It is lacking.

What's really been lacking is your contributions to these threads. Always saying the same thing over and over.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

All you do is repeat yourself over and over again.

Ok so Ford made the Mustang fast in a straight line. So did Dodge with the Challenger. Congrats on doing the easiest thing to a car that any manufacturer can do. If you recall the 350Z was fast in a straight line...faster than Mustang GTs. So was the Honda Accord coupe. The 370Z was closer to the Mustang GT than the Mustang GT was to the Camaro. The Challenger was almost a full second faster than the lightedt fastest Mustang GT. The GT350R was the slowest yet most expensive car in the 6th Gen years.

So you really have nothing to talk shit about. No version of any V8 Camaro was slower than any Honda Accord in any year they both were produced. That is as low as it gets and the Mustang GT is the only Pony Car that has that mark. No matter how fast the Mustang gets, there still was a point in time when a Honda Accord kicked it's ass.

We could make the argument that the GT* needed GMs help to beat the SS by using the co-developed transmission.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are we going into the trim discussion again? Your fastest available SS in any trim, is not as fast as the fastest available GT, despite having less weight and a significant torque advantage. It is lacking.

You keep say that. Fact is that I’m very happy with my SS. It’s fast and confident. It goes exactly where I aim it.

I have a M6 Tremec too. The fastest of the manual pony cars. One of 246 Hot Wheels 2SS M6. It lacks nothing. I’m luck to drive it every day, everywhere.

[BlaqWhole]

Moving on from the troll comment...

I wonder if the GT500 will actually do a 10 sec when it is tested. Mustangs are not exactly known for getting the power to the ground effectively when stock. And I'm sure Ford chose to go the cheap route somewhere which will probably be the axles. The HP and TQ will probably overwhelm the tires and suspension when trying to launch and it'll either end up in a wall or oncoming traffic or a crowd of people or off a cliff. It will have a high MPH but probably an 11.2 or 11.2. I'm betting the C8 and ZL1 will be on it's heels due to being a much better balanced and better controlled platform. I just don't have much faith that the GT500 will be good at launching.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are we going into the trim discussion again? Your fastest available SS in any trim, is not as fast as the fastest available GT, despite having less weight and a significant torque advantage. It is lacking.

The fastest SS in any trim can be found on any dealers lot on any day. The fastest GT trim has to be special ordered because most dealers don’t stock them and most Mustang buyers don’t buy them and probably don’t even know that they need the A10 and PP1 because it’s that deep a configuration. Mustang buyers who don’t live on forums will be fine with buying a GT off the dealers lot, then wonder why they can’t outrun their neighbor’s SS like newmoon says they can.

And heaven help them if they buy an M6 and plan to outrun an SS without modding it first. I found out in a thread on M6G that my SS convertible consistently outruns a Bullitt (Getrag M6) at the same track. I know, not the same day, same driver, but why would this even be close? The Bullitt is lighter and has 480 hp to my 455.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The fastest SS in any trim can be found on any dealers lot on any day. The fastest GT trim has to be special ordered because most dealers don’t stock them and most Mustang buyers don’t buy them and probably don’t even know that they need the A10 and PP1 because it’s that deep a configuration. Mustang buyers who don’t live on forums will be fine with buying a GT off the dealers lot, then wonder why they can’t outrun their neighbor’s SS like newmoon says they can.

And heaven help them if they buy an M6 and plan to outrun an SS without modding it first. I found out in a thread on M6G that my SS convertible consistently outruns a Bullitt (Getrag M6) at the same track. I know, not the same day, same driver, but why would this even be close? The Bullitt is lighter and has 480 hp to my 455.

For what it's worth, Motor Trend's recent Camaro SS vs Mustang GT convertible comparison had the GT and SS with identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, both M6 versions. The GT trapped 0.7 more mph meaning it was pulling away slowly at the top end which we know only grows larger as speed increases with the M6, esp. once the SS has to shift into 5th gear. Not surprising the GT has the top end speed with the DOHC engine loving to wring out. They also had identical grip and MT figure 8 times in the test.

Also, IIRC, the M6 GT and SS trap very similar speeds in the 1/4 mile (115 mph), which means from a roll it's a driver's race.

I can't explain the poor Bullitt numbers. I would expect a tenth or so better in the 1/4, and another mph or so with the additional 20 hp.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

And the SS isn't as fast as the Gold Standard Scatpack Challenger or Mustang GT in acceleration. The Camaro is lacking.

It is, it's faster. M6 mustang and challenger are 12.5+ second cars, embarrassing for 460+ hp cars but not as embarrassing as the 12.5 second 526hp gt350. Auto mustang is as fast as an auto ss, arguably a tenth faster in a straight line with the right setup, but slower every where else... 1320 is really good at it's one trick though.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

For what it's worth, Motor Trend's recent Camaro SS vs Mustang GT convertible comparison had the GT and SS with identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, both M6 versions. The GT trapped 0.7 more mph meaning it was pulling away slowly at the top end which we know only grows larger as speed increases with the M6, esp. once the SS has to shift into 5th gear. Not surprising the GT has the top end speed with the DOHC engine loving to wring out. They also had identical grip and MT figure 8 times in the test.

Also, IIRC, the M6 GT and SS trap very similar speeds in the 1/4 mile (115 mph), which means from a roll it's a driver's race.

I can't explain the poor Bullitt numbers. I would expect a tenth or so better in the 1/4, and another mph or so with the additional 20 hp.

There numbers are close, but at a cost to the GT. Quotes from the article.

The Ford matches the Camaro's time (at a lower 0.80 g) in spite of its more, uh, rebellious nature. Like its namesake, the Mustang fights and bucks when pushed hard. It understeers into the corner and then suddenly snaps into oversteer on corner exit. "It's no wonder that it's always a Mustang that ends up in a crowd outside Cars and Coffee," features editor Scott Evans said.

The Camaro SS charges from bend to bend like the mighty Mississippi—its chassis, steering, and suspension are so well sorted and balanced that there's just no way GM is paying its Camaro engineers enough. (Might I suggest docking the design staff's pay to cover the engineers' raises?) The Camaro's big 6.2-liter V-8 is lazier than the Ford's but good in its own right. Its torque and power curves are meaty, and although it's slower to rev, it never leaves you wanting more power. "Thirty seconds of hard driving is all it takes to realize the Camaro is the superior sports car," Evans said. "The Mustang feels nervous and unsure of itself by comparison even though it, too, is a good sports car."

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

For what it's worth, Motor Trend's recent Camaro SS vs Mustang GT convertible comparison had the GT and SS with identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, both M6 versions. The GT trapped 0.7 more mph meaning it was pulling away slowly at the top end which we know only grows larger as speed increases with the M6, esp. once the SS has to shift into 5th gear. Not surprising the GT has the top end speed with the DOHC engine loving to wring out. They also had identical grip and MT figure 8 times in the test.

Also, IIRC, the M6 GT and SS trap very similar speeds in the 1/4 mile (115 mph), which means from a roll it's a driver's race.

I can't explain the poor Bullitt numbers. I would expect a tenth or so better in the 1/4, and another mph or so with the additional 20 hp.

It's really not a drivers race (all manual races are to some degree), ss pulls ahead almost every time in roll races m6 vs m6 and keeps a lead up until at least 130 for the most part. The top end pull the mustang enjoys is after 135-140 where the camaro has to shift into the very tall 5th gear and the mustang can ring out 4th to 150mph. However if you want to get to real high speeds the camaro would eventually pass again since it can reach 175-180 as opposed to the mustangs limited top speed.

The m6 GT and ss do trap similar speeds but usually the ss traps higher just like the auto gt usually traps higher than the auto ss. Look at the 1le vs pp2 car and driver and motorgrend pp2 test, mustang traps 2 mph less, pp2 vs 1le. Not to mention the unusually high 118 ss m6 that car and driver recorded.

I noticed that convertible test also. Seems the convertible camaro is quite a bit slower than the coupe where as the mustang is closer to the coupe by, at least according to that article. Either way there are always some published results that aren't the most flattering, just look at Edmunds comparison of an SS m6 and an a10 GT thay both got 12.6 quarter mile times.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I think the GT A10 non PP1 is only a tenth or two behind the GT*. American muscle tested his white GT A10 and ran high 11.9s on 20” all seasons at a drag strip with a 1.9 60’. His does have drag mode but it’s on the all seasons. I am not sure if his is a PP1 or not.

I've only seen one a10 test that wasn't a pp1 or 3.55 and it was the slow Edmunds test of 12.6, I'm sure it can do better than that for sure but from everything I've seen it's m6 camaro fast, 12.2 to 12.4 car. I do believe the non pp1 m6 gt is almost as fast as the pp1, maybe only a tenth slower.

My cousin has a 3.55 m6 and he's run neck and neck with 3.73 m6s, maybe his car has a little less drag from less aero and is a bit lighter (I believe the pp2 cars have chassis reinforcements) and makes up a little bit there idk, maybe he was just a better driver.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Hey, it only takes one very hard-to-find specially equipped model to cast the halo over all configurations, all model years. Didn’t you get the memo?

In all seriousness, the last time I did my “what’s on the lot?” search, most of the larger dealers had more GT350s on their lots than GT*. That’s how rare that configuration is. And in just my daily driving around, in the heart of Ford country, I see more GT350 than I do GT* or PP2. Almost all the GTs are NOT PP anything. The most popular configuration on dealer lots is GT + 10AT, no PP1.

PP2s are rare indeed but man are they nice looking. I've only ever seen one in the wild and not on the showroom floor. They have that muscular-wide-wheels sticking out the fenders look to them that I'm partial to just like the 1le.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

PP2s are rare indeed but man are they nice looking. I've only ever seen one in the wild and not on the showroom floor. They have that muscular-wide-wheels sticking out the fenders look to them that I'm partial to just like the 1le.

I have never seen a PP2 either at a dealer or in the wild. I have seen one or two PP1 neither had the A10. Newmoon likes to make it sound like the GT* is every Mustang on the road.

I'll probably never see a 2020 GT500 where I live either.

[Rodan]

Saw a PP2 in person for the first time at our trackday yesterday. One of only a couple of late model Mustangs there. Also in attendence (street cars):

2 GT350s
1 SS Convertible (5th gen)
4 ZL1
4 ZLE

I was really amazed at how many ZL1s were there. This was in the Phoenix area.