[JD2018_ZL1]

Originally Posted by sv340

And I don't see a lot of serious call for GM to match or exceed those hp numbers. Maybe when you no longer have to steer the MOPAR with a rudder, that might change.

However till then I think fielding a complete car is a much better business plan then fielding a one trick pony. The ZL1 is able to run the .25 and not get embarrassed. It is faster than all but 14 other cars around the 'Ring and makes numbers 10-14 damn nervous for a fraction of the price. Personally I will take that over 707/840 any day. If you want to play with the Demon, get a COPO.

This was my point in less words. There is no reason to get into a HP war when you have a car that is all around better than just a HP #

Ford has to have a high HP# on the GT500 because its always been a brute. They seem to want to change that in this new gen but squeezing 700 plus out of a 5.2 is going to be a challenge reliably. They can't even seem to get a NA 5.2 FPC to be reliable.

[Rapidfire]

Originally Posted by sv340

And I don't see a lot of serious call for GM to match or exceed those hp numbers. Maybe when you no longer have to steer the MOPAR with a rudder, that might change.

However till then I think fielding a complete car is a much better business plan then fielding a one trick pony. The ZL1 is able to run the .25 and not get embarrassed. It is faster than all but 14 other cars around the 'Ring and makes numbers 10-14 damn nervous for a fraction of the price. Personally I will take that over 707/840 any day. If you want to play with the Demon, get a COPO.

Very well said

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by JD2018_ZL1

This was my point in less words. There is no reason to get into a HP war when you have a car that is all around better than just a HP #

Ford has to have a high HP# on the GT500 because its always been a brute. They seem to want to change that in this new gen but squeezing 700 plus out of a 5.2 is going to be a challenge reliably. They can't even seem to get a NA 5.2 FPC to be reliable.

I think if the GT500 is less than 100hp more than the old GT500, then it is a win for GM. The LT5 is already probably beating the 2020 GT500. I think Ford might have postponed to try and beat that number.

[angryBits]

Do we know the official power numbers yet?
I've heard some things, lets go with the highest figure of 720hp & 650lbft.

If we're talking anything other than 1/4 mile, we know the ZL1 will win.
For 1/4 mile we know torque is just as important as power and when calculating power to weight ratio I like to average power and torque so...

weight / ((power + torque) / 2) = lb / power.

GT500: 4225 / ((720 + 650)/2) = 6.168 lbs / power.
ZL1: 3880 / ((650 + 650)/2) = 5.969 lbs / power.
ZL1 1LE: 3820 / ((650 + 650)/2) = 5.877 lbs / power.

Of course the ZL1 1LE w/ A10 will need its suspension adjusted and aero removed.

Another thing to consider is that the GT500 curb weight has a 16 gallon tank compared the ZL1's 19 gallon curb weight. Assuming we'd not fill up a full tank at the drag strip, we subtract the 3 gallons of weight from the ZL1s we'd pick up another 20lb advantage.

I think the drag strip advantage for the GT500 isn't going to come from power, I think its going to come from its drag strip oriented suspension set up, DCT transmission and gearing, and Sport Cup 2 tires (maybe no advantage over the 1LE tires -- except maybe that Cup 2's warm up faster than GY 3Rs IMO).

This is my "On Paper" guesses (which counts for exactly zero).

[MaskedRacerX]

Originally Posted by angryBits

If we're talking anything other than 1/4 mile, we know the ZL1 will win.
For 1/4 mile we know torque is just as important as power and when calculating power to weight ratio I like to average power and torque so...

I think the drag strip advantage for the GT500 isn't going to come from power, I think its going to come from its drag strip oriented suspension set up, DCT transmission and gearing, and Sport Cup 2 tires (maybe no advantage over the 1LE tires -- except maybe that Cup 2's warm up faster than GY 3Rs IMO).

The new GT500 is being positioned as a highly dialed in track car, not a 1/4 mile car, the suspension isn't "drag strip oriented", the cooling setup, the brakes, the aero (especially the Carbon Fiber Track Package), that's __all__ attenuated to [road] track performance. Even the DCT is more dialed into track performance where fast up +and+ downshifts count towards road course effectiveness. You might also want to consider the peak RPM, the supercharger being utilized, to get sense of potential power output (my money is on somewhere right around 750HP).

To be clear, I'm not a buyer, I'm completely brand agnostic, in fact, my next ride will very likely be a ZL1 convertible, but I'd suggest you're not evaluating the correct performance goals of the GT500.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacerX

The new GT500 is being positioned as a highly dialed in track car, not a 1/4 mile car, the suspension isn't "drag strip oriented", the cooling setup, the brakes, the aero (especially the Carbon Fiber Track Package), that's __all__ attenuated to [road] track performance. Even the DCT is more dialed into track performance where fast up +and+ downshifts count towards road course effectiveness. You might also want to consider the peak RPM, the supercharger being utilized, to get sense of potential power output (my money is on somewhere right around 750HP).

To be clear, I'm not a buyer, I'm completely brand agnostic, in fact, my next ride will very likely be a ZL1 convertible, but I'd suggest you're not evaluating the correct performance goals of the GT500.

That's what i am thinking. Everything I have read points to the GT500 being a track car, not 1/4 mile monster. Most all supercars are track cars not 1/4 mile. Ford wants a "supercar" image, but cheaper than the GT. They should get it with the GT500, but it looks like it will be outgunned very soon after it comes out.

[GrimReaperSS]

This video gives a good explanation of GT500. 1:43 in starts with 1/4 mile "king" entry level GT500 and the Carbon Fiber Track Package version being the Road Course hero. Just after that, they give their current reasoning behind not giving a current/final horsepower figure. You also have to remember the drama that was the '99 Mustang SVT Cobra and its false HP figures. I remember when I was a Mazda Tech during the time that the RX-8 came out. They advertised something like 250 hp and then after the final emissions calibration was done on the car, it ended up being 238 hp. So to make up for it, they offered people three options. Either they could opt for free maintenance (til the warranty was up), There was something with $500 gift cards for service/parts/apparel etc, I forgot the second option and #3 was that they would just completely buy the car back. I'm sure Ford would like to avoid lawsuits over false HP advertising and paying out for "sorry we screwed up" with free maintenance or buy backs etc. Best to just wait til they have everything sorted out and then give the final figures.

[nighthawkra]

I'm pretty sure the z28 is what will combat the gt500.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by nighthawkra

I'm pretty sure the z28 is what will combat the gt500.

The Z28 and the GT500 are completely different cars. The Z28 has always been a lighter N/A car, which would put it up against the GT350.

[Markoz28]

GT500 is all hype. Will not be worth the 100k price tag.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Markoz28

GT500 is all hype. Will not be worth the 100k price tag.

I agree. It is going to be a heavy barge. If the tq specs are correct, then it has the same 650 that the ZL1 has now. So it will have more horsepower, but I am not sure if that will make up for the excess weight.

[gotswap]

if they were targeting a HP number then we would have over 700 already.

[Gunkk]

A little bench racing with weight/power ratios, choosing lowest weight for the ranges below...

Comparing history:
2013 GT500: 662 HP 3850-3969lbs (5.8 lbs/hp)
2013 Corvette ZR1: 638 HP, 3333lbs. (5.2 lbs/hp)
2013 Camaro ZL1: 580 HP 4120-4374lbs. (7.1 lbs/hp)

With the present:
2019 ZR1: 750 HP, 3560-3618 lbs (4.7 lbs/hp, 0.5 improvement)
2019 ZL1: 650 HP, 3883-4113 lbs (5.9 lbs/hp, 2.2 improvement)
2020 GT500: 7xx HP, 4200 lbs.

At 4200lbs the GT500 will need 792HP to keep up with the +0.5 lb/hp improvement in the Vette and come in at 5.3 lbs/hp.

Obviously it will not deliver the 1166HP that it would need to match the -2.2 lbs/hp improvement that the 6th gen ZL1 delivered.

Even to get to 5.0 lbs/hp the GT500 will need 840HP @ 4200 lbs. I don't see Ford spending that kind of $ to give the S550 chassis what it would take to get there.

[JB'sZL1]

At the end of the day the only #'s I'm truly interested in are price, skidpad and times (0-60, 1/4, etc.). Since the price is pretty much written in stone to be $100k+, that leaves the latter two.