[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

Most of the old school muscle cars you speak of will lose a stoplight dragrace to a new Honda Odyssey minivan. I’ve driven both being in my 40’s and I still prefer a higher revving modern car over a low rpm torque monster.

Don't kid yourself. Lots the old muscle cars were burning rubber all through first gear. That meant terrible E/Ts. And if they lose to a Mini van its because the mini van has traction. I from experience remember driving the oldies they were fun but many time the chassis could not handle the tq. The main difference between the 60/70s v8 and our modern LT1 is our LT1 will pull and pull into the 3 digits. The oldies were out of steam around 115 to 130 on average.

[Martinjlm]

Here’s what Ford thinks the Mustang is (from press release introducing the 2018 Mustang)...

“The new Mustang is our best ever, based on more than 50 years as one of the iconic sports car in America and now, the world,” said Joe Hinrichs, president of The Americas. “Tapping Mustang’s enormous fan base, we’re bringing the new Mustang straight to the people – and introducing the new car across multiple social media channels, reaching millions.”

On the other hand, I cannot find any Chevrolet press release that refers to Camaro as a Sports Car. The closest they come is to call it a “sporty coupe”.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Here’s what Ford thinks the Mustang is (from press release introducing the 2018 Mustang)...

“The new Mustang is our best ever, based on more than 50 years as one of the iconic sports car in America and now, the world,” said Joe Hinrichs, president of The Americas. “Tapping Mustang’s enormous fan base, we’re bringing the new Mustang straight to the people – and introducing the new car across multiple social media channels, reaching millions.”

On the other hand, I cannot find any Chevrolet press release that refers to Camaro as a Sports Car. The closest they come is to call it a “sporty coupe”.

GM has been calling it a sports car even when it wasn't one. Press release from 2011-04-13:

"Chevrolet Camaro, America’s most popular sports car, extends its momentum with enhancements for the 2012 model year."

2012 Camaro: 45th Anniversary Edition Boosts Power, Comfort

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

GM has been calling it a sports car even when it wasn't one. Press release from 2011-04-13:

"Chevrolet Camaro, America’s most popular sports car, extends its momentum with enhancements for the 2012 model year."

2012 Camaro: 45th Anniversary Edition Boosts Power, Comfort

Good find. Keep in mind that Ford spoke about “more than 50 years as one of America’s iconic sports cars”. I enter into evidence 1974 - 78 Mustang II. For the record, I had a ‘74 Mustang II and a ‘76 Cobra II. Definitely not sports cars. But the current crop of Camaros and Mustangs are, in my opinion, sports cars. They might also be pony cars, they might also be muscle cars, but they are definitely sports cars.

Pony Car is to Sports Car as Crew Cab is to Pickup.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

Those 70s and 80s cars you mentioned were not muscle cars. Those years hp and compression was at a minimum and just a shadow of their former selves. And yes I do agree that the 60s muscle cars were a completley different experience. The modern 4 banger #s are impressive but I have owned and driven 60s muscle. They compare more with the current SS. The problem is they could not make use of the power/efficiently get the power to the ground. They had great low end tq. But the 4 bangers, 6 and current v8 will blow them away at top speed. Many of them were only geared to 115 to maybe 140 depending on rear ends. Now the Hemi had a pretty good top end. The 4 and 6s today lack tq. They shine better mid to upper range.

Muscle car comparison....

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

Most of the old school muscle cars you speak of will lose a stoplight dragrace to a new Honda Odyssey minivan. I’ve driven both being in my 40’s and I still prefer a higher revving modern car over a low rpm torque monster.

LoL! Name a 60s muscle car that would be beat by a Honda Odyssey minivan 0-60. Just one.

[rontammy0]

I wish v6 owners would quit comparing the 5th or 6th gen V6 Camaro to the old muscle cars of the old days. A set of headers..a little tuning ...tires and some suspension tweaks the old iron is no slouch at the track. No matter what ....when you see a beautiful Chevelle SS at the light ....your just sitting in your v6 Camaro. And watch yourself.....you will likely see that Chevelles tail lights.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I'm with you I was referring to red light to red light power, I think some posting here are younger or never was fortunate enough to own or drive one of the 60s or early 70s Muscle cars to get what I'm talking about

The 1975 Trans Am I had in the day was pretty fast for the times. I got to drive a lot of my buddies cars on the weekend taking turns cruzing and drove some cool old Muscle from the 60s back when I was young.

Yep....most of these v6 guys posting would have their asses waxed at the track by those rides. They couldn't handle driving them with that 8 inch left to right play in the steering wheel haha.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

GM Authority -

"You’d think comparing an American sports car against a finely tuned German equivalent would be brand suicide, but that hasn’t been the case for the sixth-generation Chevrolet Camaro."

2019 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE Beats BMW M2 In Latest Comparison Test

Motor Trend -

"Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car."

2018 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack

Road & Track -

"This Camaro looks like an old muscle car but channels classic sports cars."

The 2017 Chevrolet Camaro 1LE Is a Track-Ready Sports-Car Bargain

Auto Week -

"Less like some weird muscle/pony car, more like an outright sports car."

2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS review: A true sports car at last?

You're attempting to hold onto something that doesn't exist anymore... Whatever helps you sleep better.

*Mic Drop*

LOL... I sleep just fine.. I look at Muscle Cars as a less expensive performance car compared to higher priced Sports Cars like the Corvette or Ford GT. So hey it's a win win for me if that's what they call it now. Remember I've owned Corvettes for 20 years so I don't have to try so hard to worry about if I have a sports car...Mic Drop.....

FYI
Here is a few links about Muscle Cars, they need to put the website and magazine on notice that the Mustang and Camaro should be removed from that category.

https://blog.myclassicgarage.com/the...s-e2aaef6fe34f

Somebody better tell Al that he is the head Engineer of Sports Cars because the GM news story below quoted his job title wrong in a few articles.

"Al Oppenheiser

Can the man behind the new Camaro inject soul into GM’s EVs?

The Chevrolet muscle car's head engineer has been moved to manage the company's electric division"

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/camaro/...l-into-gms-evs

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Yep....most of these v6 guys posting would have their asses waxed at the track by those rides. They couldn't handle driving them with that 8 inch left to right play in the steering wheel haha.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

LOL... I sleep just fine.. I look at Muscle Cars as a less expensive performance car compared to higher priced Sports Cars like the Corvette or Ford GT. So hey it's a win win for me if that's what they call it now. Remember I've owned Corvettes for 20 years so I don't have to try so hard to worry about if I have a sports car...Mic Drop.....

That's not a mic drop.

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

FYI
Here is a few links about Muscle Cars, they need to be put the website and magazine on notice that the Mustang and Camaro should be removed from that category.

https://blog.myclassicgarage.com/the...s-e2aaef6fe34f

Somebody better tell Al that he is the head Engineer of Sports Cars because the GM news story below quoted his job title wrong in a few articles.

"Al Oppenheiser

Can the man behind the new Camaro inject soul into GM’s EVs?

The Chevrolet muscle car's head engineer has been moved to manage the company's electric division

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/camaro/...l-into-gms-evs

You're taking what an online blog and magazine, which aren't as reputable as the examples previously provided, at face value.
Al Oppenheiser's title was Camaro Chief Engineer... nowhere did it state 'muscle car' or 'sports car'.

You're entrenched in your mindset and your rationale isn't making sense. I'm done.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

That's not a mic drop.



You're taking what an online blog and magazine, which aren't as reputable as the examples previously provided, at face value.
Al Oppenheiser's title was Camaro Chief Engineer... nowhere did it state 'muscle car' or 'sports car'.

You're entrenched in your mindset and your rationale isn't making sense. I'm done.

As well as you.. Enjoy your.. what ever you want to call it as several have state it could fall under both I'm old school, corvette sports car Camaro muscle.. you can call it what you want.

[karmatourer]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

LoL! Name a 60s muscle car that would be beat by a Honda Odyssey minivan 0-60. Just one.

Google it since you don't know off the top of your head like most of us.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

LoL! Name a 60s muscle car that would be beat by a Honda Odyssey minivan 0-60. Just one.

ODYSSEY 0-60 6.7 seconds

1967 Camaro SS/RS
0-60mph: 8.0 seconds

1968 Ford Mustang GT 390
0-60mph: 7.8 seconds

1967 Corvette Convertible
0-60mph: 7.8 seconds

1970 Mustang Mach 1
0-60mph: 8.2 seconds

Now your comeback?