[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

Most of the old school muscle cars you speak of will lose a stoplight dragrace to a new Honda Odyssey minivan. I’ve driven both being in my 40’s and I still prefer a higher revving modern car over a low rpm torque monster.

To each his own.. I think the guy with the old 454 Chevelle would disgree and I would put money on him over your Honda. By the way my buddies wife has a Honda Odyssey.. Your

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Yes, the Challenger is the last muscle car. Manufacturers, auto journalists and the majority of owners recognize the current Mustang and Camaro as sports cars.

I think most of the reviews I've seen refer to it handling "like" a sports car they didn't classify as one. Last time I read anything reguarding Sports cars they fell under a two seater.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by ecko04

What?!

If I had to guess, most would disagree with you. The 6th Gen Camaro is not a muscle car, it’s a pony car, which is a sports car. The same classification is made for the Mustang.

The Challenger is a muscle car.

That is funny.. Most Mags compare the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger and competitors... If we are talking about sports cars wouldn't the Corvette be in the mix when doing comparisons?

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Here's a riddle....Why do new modern engines use engine covers?....


....because.....they are butt ugly!

Hardy har har...

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by karmatourer

My 2-week-old V-6 with NPP sounds great. Every time I use all 6 gears on the M6.

Does it sound like that? Have any videos?

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

With full respect I would have to disagree.. I know on paper that it looks like the new V6 or 4T would give you the same driving experience but I can tell you from being behind the wheel of both old and new it is not.

I'm in my 50s and been very blessed to have owned several Muscle cars
1975 1976 1979 Trans AM, 1982 Z/28, 1996 and 2004 Corvette, 2011 Camaro SS and the 2017 Camaro SS over the years

I drove a 442 Olds from the 70s and my buddy restored a 1966 Mustang GT350 as well as several other buddies muscle cars when I was younger. While the new Camaro V6 is a nice car and meets the specs. It by know means has the feel of torque and punch that the old school big V8s had.

Again Not knocking the V6 it is a very good motor and model but it not the same experience of a old school Muscle car.

Those 70s and 80s cars you mentioned were not muscle cars. Those years hp and compression was at a minimum and just a shadow of their former selves. And yes I do agree that the 60s muscle cars were a completley different experience. The modern 4 banger #s are impressive but I have owned and driven 60s muscle. They compare more with the current SS. The problem is they could not make use of the power/efficiently get the power to the ground. They had great low end tq. But the 4 bangers, 6 and current v8 will blow them away at top speed. Many of them were only geared to 115 to maybe 140 depending on rear ends. Now the Hemi had a pretty good top end. The 4 and 6s today lack tq. They shine better mid to upper range.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by 17rsvert

I think you also have to keep in mind that the 'feel of torque and punch' and 'experience of old school Muscle' is more than just the engine. I am by no means an expert, but I have driven a 1971 442 W30 and a 1970 Chevelle, and it seemed to me the steering, tires, suspension and transmissions of those cars added alot to the 'experience.' It was much harder to control the power of those older cars, and I'm not sure it was ONLY due to the high HP or torque. The feel I got driving those cars was I could very easily end up going sideways if I wasn't careful. Hypothetically, if someone put one of those old V8s into a modern Camaro, or a new V8 into a old school muscle car, would the engine difference alone vastly change the driving characteristics?

All I have to do is turn off my traction control on my SS and I could easily end up in the bushes too.

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

All I have to do is turn off my traction control on my SS and I could easily end up in the bushes too.

And that's WITH better steering, suspension and tires!

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Interesting question. I grew up in that era and drove/owned some of those cars. Without actually doing it it’s conjecture but I suspect a vintage engine in a newer car would handle about the same as stock newer cars assuming weights weren’t to different and the nanny’s still worked. Drop a new engine in a vintage muscle car and I think you get vintage handling assuming again that weight/balance isn’t dramatically changed. Drop a ZL1 into a late 60s Camaro and I think all but the most experienced drivers end up in the ditch if they get to frisky. Of course your tires might blow up and your brakes can’t really handle it either.

Yesterday coming home from a match I got into the throttle a bit on a very slightly damp road and spun the tires at about 65 mph. Vintage cars by and large couldn’t do that despite having crap tires compared what we have today.

Makes me think of my twin turbo RX7, the line between everything is fine and pucker factor 1000 was very fine, the same for a Porsche 911T. Not true for a newer Camaro SS which has much more linear handling.

Sure they would spin at 65. The same day I got my 69 383 RoadRunner in the mid 70s. I was driving it home. The road were a little damp. I was on the highway and goosed the throttle just a little and felt the rear slide. I drove super safe home after that until I got used to the car. I should have kept it, but still like my SS better.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I don't think the new Camaro V6 to a 2.0T falls under old school experience compared to the old V8. JMHO

Also The Camaro is NOT a Sports Car. It is a Muscle car that was designed for speed and track use, as in back in the day when GM built the 302 for the Trans Am Series tracks.

A Corvette is a Sports Car.

I would recommend you spend some time at some car events get to know a few people with some classics and drive some old cars with V8s. It's a lot of fun..

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Why, because you say so?

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Nope, because the last GM event I was at that's how the engineers referred to the car but I guess the guys that designed it don't know what they built

I kind of see it as AND not OR. The Sports Car classification covers a lot of ground. Within the Sports Car classification there are some that are GTs, some that are Sports Coupes, some that are Pony Cars. Sports Cars range in form, function, and price all the way from Miata / BRZ to McLaren 650 and Ferrari 488.

Some cars can be considered to be in multiple categories. A BMW M5 can be considered a Luxury Sedan and a Sports Car Sedan. A Challenger can be considered a Large Sedan, a Muscle Car, and in some configurations, a Sports Car. Both Mustang and Camaro would be considered Sports Cars and Pony Cars.

If you go into R.L. Polk registration data, Mustang and Camaro are both listed as Sports Car. Challenger is listed as Large Car.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

Those 70s and 80s cars you mentioned were not muscle cars. Those years hp and compression was at a minimum and just a shadow of their former selves. And yes I do agree that the 60s muscle cars were a completley different experience. The modern 4 banger #s are impressive but I have owned and driven 60s muscle. They compare more with the current SS. The problem is they could not make use of the power/efficiently get the power to the ground. They had great low end tq. But the 4 bangers, 6 and current v8 will blow them away at top speed. Many of them were only geared to 115 to maybe 140 depending on rear ends. Now the Hemi had a pretty good top end. The 4 and 6s today lack tq. They shine better mid to upper range.

I'm with you I was referring to red light to red light power, I think some posting here are younger or never was fortunate enough to own or drive one of the 60s or early 70s Muscle cars to get what I'm talking about

The 1975 Trans Am I had in the day was pretty fast for the times. I got to drive a lot of my buddies cars on the weekend taking turns cruzing and drove some cool old Muscle from the 60s back when I was young.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Why, because you say so?

Its not a sports car, its a sporty coupe.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I kind of see it as AND not OR. The Sports Car classification covers a lot of ground. Within the Sports Car classification there are some that are GTs, some that are Sports Coupes, some that are Pony Cars. Sports Cars range in form, function, and price all the way from Miata / BRZ to McLaren 650 and Ferrari 488.

Some cars can be considered to be in multiple categories. A BMW M5 can be considered a Luxury Sedan and a Sports Car Sedan. A Challenger can be considered a Large Sedan, a Muscle Car, and in some configurations, a Sports Car. Both Mustang and Camaro would be considered Sports Cars and Pony Cars.

If you go into R.L. Polk registration data, Mustang and Camaro are both listed as Sports Car. Challenger is listed as Large Car.

Yea, I can kind of see your point. Most of the car events I've been at the GM guys I spoke with never called it a sports car, I found that most look at the Corvette as the True Chevy Sports car and the Camaro as a Muscle car, after owning both Its would be hard for me to think of my Camaro as a Sports car. JMHO

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Nope, because the last GM event I was at that's how the engineers referred to the car but I guess the guys that designed it don't know what they built

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I think most of the reviews I've seen refer to it handling "like" a sports car they didn't classify as one. Last time I read anything reguarding Sports cars they fell under a two seater.

GM Authority -

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Motor Trend -

"Chevy has done the near impossible, transcended the genre, and turned a once provincial pony car into an honest to goodness world-class sports car."

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Road & Track -

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Auto Week -

"Less like some weird muscle/pony car, more like an outright sports car."

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You're attempting to hold onto something that doesn't exist anymore... Whatever helps you sleep better.

*Mic Drop*