[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So are you suggesting that Toyota is doing well because they advertise? All sedan sales are down, including the highly thought of Accord. Down 25% last I saw. And Honda just launched and all new SUV to boot. So the industry is changing.

Maybe, just maybe, the near-total lack of showing that there's any fun or excitement left in cars is a contributing reason. Though Toyota has had a couple of Camry commercials that were very "un-Toyota-ish", and Honda's got an even more enthusiastic one for their Civic and two other models.

Enthusiasts are generally going to know what's available; it's the folks on the fringes that the Camaro needs to bring in. As opposed to not caring if they go out and buy yet another SUV because they don't know any different.


I'm not saying that the Camaro should get a whole advertising campaign strictly unto itself. Just more visibility than the little it currently gets (which wouldn't take much to achieve).


Norm

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So are you suggesting that Toyota is doing well because they advertise? All sedan sales are down, including the highly thought of Accord. Down 25% last I saw. And Honda just launched and all new SUV to boot. So the industry is changing.

….


And I'm not collecting resume's, just suggesting that everyone that thinks GM is not selling more Camaros than Mustangs is because they don't use TV commercials might apply to GM. They believe GM has a bunch of idiots in key positions that just don't see the value in cool TV commercial. A good TV commercial would launch Camaro sales, or so they suggest.

My point has simply been if it really were that simple GM would have done it by now. Mostly because I've known the people in those positions at GM, including my wife that worked on Camaro and Corvette, but everyone thinks they know better. So yes, maybe I take it personally when people come on here and suggest people I know and have worked with should be fired because they can't see how great sales would be if there was just a simple commercial on TV. What they really want is validation of their car with a cool commercial. No one here on Camaro 5/6 is going to be one bit more motivated to buy a Camaro if there were a great commercial.

I could have easily just quoted your entire post because it is pretty much spot on. There is more than likely some bias that you and I share since we both spent some significant time at GM and both know a lot of the key people involved on a "say hi in the hallway" basis. I clipped a lot out to focus on the points I intend to address.

The bold italics part is clearly true. So let's look at it like this. Let's assume that they are all idiots and that they get replaced by somebody who comes in and immediately releases the world's coolest Camaro commercials. Let's assume the commercials are so awesome that sales immediately double. In 2017, there were 60,100 new Camaro registrations in the US. So, let's make that 120,000. Compare that to 163,000 Chevy Cruze registrations in that same timeframe. The Cruze that is being cancelled in the US. Ok, but the Camaro probably brings in more $$/vehicle than the Cruze. But probably nowhere near as much as Silverado. Silverado registered about 480,000 vehicles in 2017. Now, is that because of the advertising or is the advertising in place to protect the lucrative sales? I would suggest the latter.

I could get into the whole question of whether Lansing Grand River is balanced to manufacture 120,000 Camaros a year, but that would be too "inside". Let's assume that it can and could be increased to meet demand at minimal cost. Especially if the increased sales due to advertising is a more rational and reasonable level. How much could advertising directly increase sales? 5%? 10%? 25%? When you subtract the cost of the ads from the incremental profit it would barely make a ripple.

There is really very little to be gained from having a Camaro-only TV ad. The incremental sales would barely offset the cost of the ad campaign, if at all. Where I think Chevrolet Marketing could improve Camaro's public perception with little or no additional cost is to do more portfolio ads that show more of the vehicles as they are used by everyday people. Two seconds of a Camaro driving down the road followed by five seconds of a Silverado or Equinox or whatever and so on could show that Chevrolet has a full portfolio of vehicles to chose from. The last times I recall Camaro being included in commercials it was done this way. With Cruze, Volt, and Impala being dropped from the portfolio there is a chance that something in the form of a portfolio ad will be coming if for no other reason than to assert "hey, we still have a lot of product".

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Where I think Chevrolet Marketing could improve Camaro's public perception with little or no additional cost is to do more portfolio ads that show more of the vehicles as they are used by everyday people. Two seconds of a Camaro driving down the road followed by five seconds of a Silverado or Equinox or whatever and so on could show that Chevrolet has a full portfolio of vehicles to chose from. The last times I recall Camaro being included in commercials it was done this way. With Cruze, Volt, and Impala being dropped from the portfolio there is a chance that something in the form of a portfolio ad will be coming if for no other reason than to assert "hey, we still have a lot of product".

Just a little [more] exposure is exactly what's needed. It can't possibly cost much to insert a few seconds (maybe even with a few spoken words) here and there.


Norm

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There is really very little to be gained from having a Camaro-only TV ad. The incremental sales would barely offset the cost of the ad campaign, if at all. Where I think Chevrolet Marketing could improve Camaro's public perception with little or no additional cost is to do more portfolio ads that show more of the vehicles as they are used by everyday people. Two seconds of a Camaro driving down the road followed by five seconds of a Silverado or Equinox or whatever and so on could show that Chevrolet has a full portfolio of vehicles to chose from. The last times I recall Camaro being included in commercials it was done this way. With Cruze, Volt, and Impala being dropped from the portfolio there is a chance that something in the form of a portfolio ad will be coming if for no other reason than to assert "hey, we still have a lot of product".

What it comes down to is everyone in the world knows what a Hellcat is, and very few people know the '16 Camaro is a new car vs the '15 let alone what a ZL1 is.

The point isn't TV ads, IDK how effective they are as it's not my area of expertise. What counts is people knowing about the car regardless of how it's done. Maybe some TV, maybe some social media, maybe sponsor events, etc.. there are lots of ways to advertise and promote things these days.

I don't think it's reasonable to argue that GM has not failed in the area of public awareness and perception wrt the Camaro. How do you get people to be aware of your product? IDK, how did Fiat get people interested in and willing to buy their old, outdated, underperforming cars over Camaros? How did they get every man, woman and child in this world to know exactly what a Hellcat is?

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by Number 3

... No one here on Camaro 5/6 is going to be one bit more motivated to buy a Camaro if there were a great commercial.

I respectfully disagree.
Even as a dyed in the wool Chevy driver looking for a convertible I had completely overlooked the Camaro as an option. Call me a moron if you like but it was out of sight and out of mind. I stumbled on the Camaro convertible only after dropping the BMW convertible as an option and googling "convertible cars". I'm glad I did or I might have ended up with a Buick Cascada. If there had been a couple of Camaro commercials or ads out there I would never have looked at the Beemer.

[Boost Creep]

I think the Toyota Rav4 was the number one selling vehicle last year.

The whole car market has shifted away from passenger cars over to Crossovers/small SUV's due to the better visibility, practicality, and I'm guessing increase in crappy roads everywhere.

Ford has all but stopped making cars except the Mustang, and is putting all their energy into SUV's and trucks.
Lamborghini makes SUV's again, and now Ferrari.

The world is changing and cars like the Camaro are now a small niche segment of the automobile market, unlike back in the muscle car days when almost everyone had a two door car.

[DaveC113]

I think it's simple... Hellcat and Demon sound cooler than 3 character alphanumeric codes from yesteryear, and it's easy to brag about HP and make burnout vids.

[s346k]

demon is a 45+ year old name. hellcat does sound cool, though. i don’t think commercials change anything. however, the great majority of people who need to answer these questions and provide input will never see this forum because they aren’t car enthusiasts.

i knew exactly what i was buying when i bought a 2018 1SS 1LE camaro. the day a car commercial sways my decision about a car purchase is the day i hang up my keys.

[Doc]

Lack of commercials isn't the problem with Camaro sales. Everybody knows what Camaros are. The problem is that Chevy sees the enthusiast as the 'mainstream' and they aren't; they're actually the fringe. The other 98% of the market that isn't buying the Camaro just doesn't see it as a practical daily driver. None of those people will ever do a burn-out; they could care less about wheel gap, quarter mile times or Nurburgring times. Chevy made the Camaro for the fringe that's in here, and they succeeded. The fringe bought it but unfortunately that's not even close to the bulk of the sweet spot in the marketplace.

I don't know who's in charge of advertising at GM, but they don't seem to have any concept of what exciting and appealing means. Those lame "real people" ads in my opinion are so lame, they're actually counter-productive.

TV ads do work; GOOD tv ads work. I bought an Alfa Romeo Giulia because I saw an ad on TV and decided to go look at them, did a test drive and wound up buying one. Now compare these ads from Alfa to the "real people" ads, and judge for yourself what the difference in effect is:





This one shows less speed performance, and although it's in Italian, it still presents the car as something beautiful and desirable:



And then there's this one:



Alfa's sales are up 36% and that's not just the Stelvio SUV. Why can't GM put together commercials like this? Something that makes you at least go to a dealership and check one out.

True, lack of commercials alone aren't the problem, but good commercials DO have an effect. GM got lucky with the 5th gen because the Transformers movie and Bumblebee did their advertising for them, and the 5th gen was (still is) a great looking car that looked reasonable as a daily driver, and you could get the V6 for $25k, and a V8 1SS for $34k.

Consider also, that Alfa is showing strong sales increases with only 170 dealers in the U.S., compared to the thousands of dealers that GM and Ford have. I'm not trying to sell Alfas here, just pointing out that the idea that sedans are dead is simply not true. Create something people like, and let them see it in action, and they WILL respond. It won't be the burnout/quarter mile/Nurburgring crowd; it will be the huge market that Chevy used to have.

They should try advertising to the collective buyer that exists nowadays; the family. Show a truck or SUV, executive sedan and a Camaro in the driveway with mom, dad and the teen(s). Show each driving away to do what they do all day in a sped-up video, then they all come back together at the end of the day as a family again. Something like that would reach that customer base which is the largest, and has the money to buy; you just need to show them what you have that fits their needs and lifestyles.

[Vtor_ZL1]

Yup, those commercials make me WANT a GIULIA.. despite fear of unreliable italian cars!


I bought ZL1 because of all the fun I saw editors of motortrend were having with them. Not because of CHEVY or their shitty warehouse ads - so yawnnnn worthy. At least have courtesy of placing vehicles in condition average owner woudl never do.. for most SUV off road, for truck.. carrying something.


Who ever keeps approving those shit "real people" ads - does not get it.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Stex

1. Maybe if they built a Camaro you can see out of...like that traffic light hanging in front of you at the intersection, nah has to be the lack of commercials...

2. Most here to young to remember how GM was sued big time on the Firebird T-tops...dude flipped or hit a pole, ejected and killed or hurt bad??? Driver error for sure, but GM lost the case due to ads showing spirited driving of a FB. Ads were nothing like the Chal ads. of today, go figure??

Remember GM is run by todays new way of thinking on what is PC ..a lot like fake book, google etc...

If they are worried about being sued...because a commercial is not PC, then GM needs to grow some balls a do some in your face ads and get some real respect. People are sick of all the PC BS.

[JCunningham]

i had a 5th gen for 4 years then got the 6th gen befor i figured out that you can see everything behind you if you know how to set the mirrors and have a backup camera. i also learned to stop short of lights to see them. it just takes getting use to.

[CamaroSS50]

2016 Launch.

Not in the US, but Dubai



Same argument since I've gotten on this board last May.

2-3 guys shutting up the masses.

The Camaro has such low awareness, even a $100K spend would move product.

Regardless, GM is a horrible marketer.

Happy New Year & enjoy your ride!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

What it comes down to is everyone in the world knows what a Hellcat is, and very few people know the '16 Camaro is a new car vs the '15 let alone what a ZL1 is.

The point isn't TV ads, IDK how effective they are as it's not my area of expertise. What counts is people knowing about the car regardless of how it's done. Maybe some TV, maybe some social media, maybe sponsor events, etc.. there are lots of ways to advertise and promote things these days.

I don't think it's reasonable to argue that GM has not failed in the area of public awareness and perception wrt the Camaro. How do you get people to be aware of your product? IDK, how did Fiat get people interested in and willing to buy their old, outdated, underperforming cars over Camaros? How did they get every man, woman and child in this world to know exactly what a Hellcat is?

I believe you would be terribly shocked to discover that not only does EVERYONE not know what a Demon is that it would be much closer to only most of the average car fanatics actually know what a Demon is.

Originally Posted by Silverado57

I respectfully disagree.
Even as a dyed in the wool Chevy driver looking for a convertible I had completely overlooked the Camaro as an option. Call me a moron if you like but it was out of sight and out of mind. I stumbled on the Camaro convertible only after dropping the BMW convertible as an option and googling "convertible cars". I'm glad I did or I might have ended up with a Buick Cascada. If there had been a couple of Camaro commercials or ads out there I would never have looked at the Beemer.

I appologize, I made the internet error of saying no one when the truth is simply most. If you are on Camaro5/6 everyday as I am, a TV commercial about the Camaro will most likely not sway your purchasing wants.

Originally Posted by fullpower

It seems there’s a disconnect at GM with the people with all the degrees and numbers versus the reality on the street.

Yep, data is NEVER wrong. Years of knowledge and experience is NEVER wrong. Ever. Opinions of internet veterans who’s livelihood does not depend on being right or wrong........Yep, now the top consideration.

If you’ve read my posts for the past 10 years you know I believe GM is VERY fallible. But trust me when (shit no one is capable of that) that the Ad Agencies working for GM would make sooooooo much money if they got GM to simply run. Simple TV spot that they would be heroes and be able to sell other OEMs on the fact that they doubled Camaro sales with their idea of a simple TV commercial........

You guys are assuming that not only is GM entirely stupid but that they are actually paying multiple millions of dollars to Ad Agencies who also have hundreds of ads they’ve done and hundreds of degrees and hundreds if not thousands of combined years of experience and GM is telling them that they are idiots and ignoring them and then reading the wisdom on this website and choosing to ignore it. Sorry too many years in this industry to buy it.