[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I believe you would be terribly shocked to discover that not only does EVERYONE not know what a Demon is that it would be much closer to only most of the average car fanatics actually know what a Demon is.

Well, Hellcat is the one I think everyone knows about but I guess we won't know if that's true unless someone pays for a poll. But I think I'm probably pretty close to right. Hellcat is known far more by non-enthusiasts vs a ZL1. Non-enthusiasts probably don't know the '16 Camaro is different vs the '15 either.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Well, Hellcat is the one I think everyone knows about but I guess we won't know if that's true unless someone pays for a poll. But I think I'm probably pretty close to right. Hellcat is known far more by non-enthusiasts vs a ZL1. Non-enthusiasts probably don't know the '16 Camaro is different vs the '15 either.

My point is that if you asked 300 plus million Americans what Demon was your assumption is they would all respond “ oh, yes, that is the awesome car made by Fiat in Canada with HUGE horsepower and designed to rule the 1/4 mile”. NOT

Your position is based on being an enthusiast that frequents an enthusiast web site and then stating “everyone”. It just isn’t the case.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Number 3

My point is that if you asked 300 plus million Americans what Demon was your assumption is they would all respond “ oh, yes, that is the awesome car made by Fiat in Canada with HUGE horsepower and designed to rule the 1/4 mile”. NOT

Your position is based on being an enthusiast that frequents an enthusiast web site and then stating “everyone”. It just isn’t the case.

You can't know that without a poll, you're just guessing too.

I'm guessing you're wrong, based on who I know and where I live... but it's just a guess.

Also, Hellcat. Not Demon, Hellcat. I think more people have heard of the Hellcat because it's been out for longer and made the biggest impression when launched.

[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by Number 3

My point is that if you asked 300 plus million Americans what Demon was your assumption is they would all respond “ oh, yes...

Your position is based on being an enthusiast that frequents an enthusiast web site and then stating “everyone”. It just isn’t the case.

I think you are both missing an important point here by speaking in absolutes. When you discuss "all" and "everyone" it makes it too easy to distract from the point of your arguments.
Of course most people on these forums will not be swayed by car commercials, just the fact they are here means they are already target customers for these cars and are actively doing online searches for more information.
But I also think there is less awareness by the non-enthusiast buying public about the Camaro than the Mustang or Challenger. My wife, who is a non-enthusiast, could pick out a Mustang or Challenger on the street, and until I bought mine, had no idea how to identify a Camaro. (She knows now)
I also have had numerous conversations with different people who know of Mustang GT's and Shelby packages as well as Hellcats, but if I ask them if they know what a ZL1 or 1LE is they have NO idea what I'm talking about.
So the question is: If GM is doing the best possible job marketing the Camaro, why does it seem Mustangs and Challengers are more well known and recognized by the general public? To those of not educated enough to know that GM is doing a fantastic marketing job, we look at the fact that Mustangs and Challengers are better known cars that are outselling the Camaro, and those cars are seen in commercials where the Camaro is not. The simplistic conclusion (to us) is that maybe more advertising would raise brand awareness and marketshare would increase.
How that advertising spending will effect profitability is another discussion altogether.

[CCG Garnet Red]

Owner of two corvettes was admiring my son's 17 RS as I was filing it with with gas last week. As he walked toward it trying to read the small Camaro badge on the fender he asked me what it was. Very sad.

[KirkH]

My dealer made this ad himself. I think it's great! (I hope I haven't posted this on this thread already, I searched the thread.)

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by CCG Garnet Red

Owner of two corvettes was admiring my son's 17 RS as I was filing it with with gas last week. As he walked toward it trying to read the small Camaro badge on the fender he asked me what it was. Very sad.

I have a friend who is disabled, he's about 60, blues musician and knows a little about cars. When I first got my car I had it polished and the badges removed. I was giving him a ride somewhere, he saw the car from the rear quarter and side, opened the door and asked "What is this? Did you buy a Maserati or something?"

Several people have seen it from the back in my garage and have no idea what it is.

Most think it's a cool looking car but without the bowties many have no idea wtf it is.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yep, data is NEVER wrong. Years of knowledge and experience is NEVER wrong. Ever. Opinions of internet veterans who’s livelihood does not depend on being right or wrong........Yep, now the top consideration.

Right, data is NEVER wrong... until it is. Experts and polling veterans with years of knowledge and experience who's livelihood depend on being right or wrong had Hillary at a 98% chance to win.

Sometimes it's precisely that entrenched mentality that gets in its own way.

Originally Posted by Number 3

If you’ve read my posts for the past 10 years you know I believe GM is VERY fallible. But trust me when (shit no one is capable of that) that the Ad Agencies working for GM would make sooooooo much money if they got GM to simply run. Simple TV spot that they would be heroes and be able to sell other OEMs on the fact that they doubled Camaro sales with their idea of a simple TV commercial........

You guys are assuming that not only is GM entirely stupid but that they are actually paying multiple millions of dollars to Ad Agencies who also have hundreds of ads they’ve done and hundreds of degrees and hundreds if not thousands of combined years of experience and GM is telling them that they are idiots and ignoring them and then reading the wisdom on this website and choosing to ignore it. Sorry too many years in this industry to buy it.

Well, I agree that it isn't quite that simple. It's not like the old days where the channels of distribution were much fewer with much greater percentages of exposure. It has to be a real challenge to figure out where to advertise today with the ridiculous number of avenues of media. It's no longer a guarantee that most of America will be sitting in front of the TV in the evening watching one of the big 3 networks. Those days are gone.

Marketing research now has to be almost a nightmare to figure out where your possible customer base is spending their time and what they're looking at. The internet has changed that landscape forever.

That being said, people are visually oriented. If they see something that catches their eye, they want to know more about it. Forcing them to look at it with interrupting commercials, pop-ups, auto-play videos, redirects, etc. just irritates them. The Transformer movie wasn't about Bumblebee, and that allowed people to see the car in a non-interruptive non-irritating way. They need to be more creative in getting the car to be visible. Put it on HGTV as a vehicle in the driveway of a house project, put it on the Hallmark channel as the car one of the main characters drive, put it in video games that aren't about cars and racing, put it in all kinds of places that aren't specifically about cars. The trick is to NOT do commercials; people automatically mute/tune commercials out. Commercials are the time to go get something to eat or drink, or go to the bathroom. Don't do traditional style commercials, but include the car as part of something else that people are interested in; they just happen to see the car as a vehicle somebody is driving or appearing in.

If it catches their eye, within seconds they're on the internet searching for "what was that car in (XYZ) show I saw tonight?" In fact if it really catches their eye, they're googling it within seconds on their cell phones. Won't take long before they find out what it is. That's the kind of response that will get them to go to a dealer and check it out.

Because the channels of information exposure and distribution have changed, the methods of "advertising" have to change, and even the very idea of what advertising is and has to become has to change too. I know product placement isn't a new concept, but the whole industry has to figure out how to adapt to what's happened to our world with the internet.

The old ways may be fading away, but new ways are opening up. Sometimes the old, experienced, "I've been doing this for 30 years", "we've run focus groups and taken polls" kinds of entrenched set-in-their-ways types... actually don't get it.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yep, data is NEVER wrong. Years of knowledge and experience is NEVER wrong. Ever. Opinions of internet veterans who’s livelihood does not depend on being right or wrong........Yep, now the top consideration.

What I think most of us are questioning is this . . . if advertising to the general public has any value at all - and it must, else no other products would need it either - how can virtually no [Camaro] mass-market advertising be seen as better than some?

Perhaps the folks in advertising these days don't know how to sell 'excitement'. Or maybe they're flat-out afraid to. Seems a shame when what could be presented as Chevy's second-tier halo car gets as little advertising attention as this.


Norm

[Jim50thSS]

I wish there were more Camaro commercials not because I necessarily want people to buy them. I just want everyone I know to be constantly reminded how cool of a car I have and that they don't have one.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by fullpower

This ad should have been run at least once or twice in EVERY major, prime-time event and TV show for 2017:

That was a cool piece. It was all over the interwebs for a short time. That and the one where the Camaro blew out the candles for Mustang's cake. Can't remember if that was 1 millionth car built or something else. Ironically, I know where the ZL1 video was shot. I recognize the building in the background.

Found it. 54th birthday.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

There is really very little to be gained from having a Camaro-only TV ad. The incremental sales would barely offset the cost of the ad campaign, if at all. Where I think Chevrolet Marketing could improve Camaro's public perception with little or no additional cost is to do more portfolio ads that show more of the vehicles as they are used by everyday people. Two seconds of a Camaro driving down the road followed by five seconds of a Silverado or Equinox or whatever and so on could show that Chevrolet has a full portfolio of vehicles to chose from. The last times I recall Camaro being included in commercials it was done this way. With Cruze, Volt, and Impala being dropped from the portfolio there is a chance that something in the form of a portfolio ad will be coming if for no other reason than to assert "hey, we still have a lot of product".

This is where I think the perfect balance could be. Does Camaro need its onw ad campaign. No it does not. Should it at least be featured in some of the ads hell yes. I saw this Ford ad the other day.



Features the mustang in several prominent shots, but yet ad the end of the ad it pans to what makes for the most money SUVS and trucks. I believe I might be wrong, but locally when this ad aired on TV it had offers for Holiday bonus cash on SUVs and trucks.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

This is where I think the perfect balance could be. Does Camaro need its onw ad campaign. No it does not. Should it at least be featured in some of the ads hell yes. I saw this Ford ad the other day.



Features the mustang in several prominent shots, but yet ad the end of the ad it pans to what makes for the most money SUVS and trucks. I believe I might be wrong, but locally when this ad aired on TV it had offers for Holiday bonus cash on SUVs and trucks.

I was watching that ad when I typed that post. Some of my original ideas ain't.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Jim50thSS

I wish there were more Camaro commercials not because I necessarily want people to buy them. I just want everyone I know to be constantly reminded how cool of a car I have and that they don't have one.

This guy gets it.

Commercials aren't going to save the camaro, much less sports cars in general. This is all about existing owners wanting to make sure everyone knows that their car is better than theirs, even though it's called "Camaro".

Which is great, but i can see why Chevy wouldn't put a lot of money into that. We think it's important but we're a tiny tiny fraction of the purchasing public.

Cars are getting fast everywhere. They're coming up to the point where the average car can do things that the average driver doesn't have the skills to manage. That's bad for those of us who like to have fun in our cars while on public roads and do have the ability to manage them. Because it means the public will demand higher enforcement of stricter laws to reduce having fun in cars in public spaces. That will just decrease the desirability of fun cars. Further eroding the market. Because as a nation, we'll never make driving tests harder to weed out the crappy drivers until humans are no longer required to drive.

So the more people who have high performing vehicles, the worse it will become for those niche vehicles like the camaro. Commercials wont ever stop that. We're on the verge of a shift in what driving means to the public, and the freedom we've had to have fun on the road was a temporary situation caused by the capacity of roads exceeding the public use of them ...which is finally catching up.

What's frustrating though is that even though most modern cars are plenty fast enough to exceed the ability of their driver to take advantage of that power, all I ever see is people who suck at driving, drive too slow, and take forever to accelerate to the speed limit (if they ever reach the speed limit).

If drivers can't reach the speed limit and accelerate to it quickly, then why would they want a car that's been overengineered to do so? This is a fight against the market direction that demands everyone play nice and safe together, which will require ever more strict control over driving and more importantly, it's going to require control over groups of drivers. This is why our niche will lose.