[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Corvette_Mike

I agree. I have tried that option before and hated driving an economy car.

[DougCBJ]

OP is a moron.

[Ace01]

Oh my God! Did want to start a debate of GAS vs. EV. I am trying to tell you that used market for Fiat 500e and GM spark is a hell of a deal. $7500 to $8500 Getting one for a Secondary car makes sense, and you can commute for practically nothing and save the wear and tear on our SS and 1LE's. Sorry I started the thread.

[Ace01]

Oh my God! Did want to start a debate of GAS vs. EV. I am trying to tell you that used market for Fiat 500e and GM spark is a hell of a deal. $7500 to $8500 Getting one for a Secondary car makes sense, and you can commute for practically nothing and save the wear and tear on our SS and 1LE's. Sorry I started the thread.

[Ace01]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

You live in Charlotte where the average price for premium is $3 a gallon, $2.60 for 87. Did you seriously just make up $4.40 a gallon to try and justify your car purchase to us? Pretty sad.

Oh my God! Did want to start a debate of GAS vs. EV. I am trying to tell you that used market for Fiat 500e and GM spark is a hell of a deal. $7500 to $8500 Getting one for a Secondary car makes sense, and you can commute for practically nothing and save the wear and tear on our SS and 1LE's. Sorry I started the thread.

[matt fe2o3]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I’m not sure buying an additional $25k car is going to offset any gas savings. If gas got to $5 a gallon it would take 35 years of driving it to start saving money that way.

A lot of gas savings can be achieved by keeping the right foot off the floorboard.

Right now I'm averaging 26.5 or better in the 2SS on a regular 60 mile commute without hard right foot. Even with spirited driving mixed in my 400 mile average is well about 21 mpg. I don't beat my cars - but I do drive them.

My 08' Tundra (purchased new in 2008) which I sold this year got around 12 to 14 mpg.

I did a 3,000 mile trip this summer on my Aprilia v-twin 990cc. Charged all the gas on one card. Just got the bill 320 bucks. So roughly 30 mpg on the bike, actually a bit less.

Our new 2018 3.6 Subaru Outback have never seen an average of over 19 - with the exception of long highway trips and it is still only around 23 mpg. It's largely a drive in city/town vehicle.

Before I bought my 2SS i had checked a variety of cars and the Camaro seemed like the winner when compared to the Challenger. I had no interest in the Mustang as I can't fit due legroom and knee/shin interference.

So far the Camaro has surprised me and while the bike does get better mileage and since we lane split here in California it is the hands down commuter (if you dare), the Camaro is the overall mileage and comfort winner.

So compared to the truck I've pretty close to doubled my MPG. At 10k miles per year my annual fuel bill in the truck @14mpg /714 gallons - would run around $2,500 at $3.5 per gallon. The Camaro consuming 50% of the fuel that the truck would reduces that fuel bill by around $1,250 per year.

There is an insurance offset, however maintenance costs are quite similar, huge oil sumps of synthetic, big tires, etc. But overall the net savings for me are about 1,000 a year.

So until my fuel bill increases by a fairly large amount the relative price of fuel increases is minimal. That's also offset by investments in the oil/fuel industry - for me. So it's not such a "run to cover - gotta go buy a smart car". You can conserve and reduce expenses/mitigate inflation in more ways than one.

[redcoats1976]

it cant be as bad as my 66 pontiac tempest (modded)was.8 mpg,80 bucks a week just to go to work and back.premium fuel only,whereas i could run 87 in my 6 cylinder if i wanted to.i use 89 as it just seems wrong to use 87 in such a nice engine,makes me feel like im abusing my car.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

What you have to look at is the total EROEI, or energy return on energy invested, including what it takes to build and decommission.

When you charge an ev w/fossil fuel you're not doing much better vs ICE in terms of efficiency, although compared to an SS maybe you are. Compared to a Honda Fit, probably not. While NG turbines have surpassed ~65% the entire process is not that that efficient, with many fuels it's a wash vs burning gas in an ICE.

However, you also need to account for the fact an ev takes a lot more to manufacture and recycle, and as far as manufacturing, the mining of rare earth and cobalt is not a nice process. There are human costs and environmental costs associated with mining and manufacturing with these materials.

EVs are certainly the future but right this second they don't quite live up to their promise, imo.

Not really. The total efficiency is still far greater for EV burning petroleum products at the power station. Again, you have to build tanker trucks, ships, holding tanks, etc., just to distribute gas, you have to refine it into forms usable for the ICE engine it's going into, etc. There are ICE cars littering the earth all over the place, leaking oil, rusting away, it's not like there isn't a huge problem with this too. People are going to buy new cars. EV technology has reached a point where it is viable. It's not viable for everyone yet, but it's usable with range that many people can use. I even see Teslas up here in Alaska. The technology is gaining and hurdles are being overcome. People always act as if there's some giant "switch" someone is going to throw and after that date you have to turn in your ICE cars. Then they started the hysteria that Prius's were going to only go 5000 miles and they'd need batteries and there'd be batteries piling up everywhere. The scar-tactics are getting old. The transition will be gradual and there will be some niches where it takes decades at least to transition, but they eventually will.

In my lifetime I've seen practical electric vehicles go from a dream to reality, in use all over the world.

I ride my bike to work a lot of the time. In Alaska. In the winter.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Not really. The total efficiency is still far greater for EV burning petroleum products at the power station. Again, you have to build tanker trucks, ships, holding tanks, etc., just to distribute gas, you have to refine it into forms usable for the ICE engine it's going into, etc. There are ICE cars littering the earth all over the place, leaking oil, rusting away, it's not like there isn't a huge problem with this too. People are going to buy new cars. EV technology has reached a point where it is viable. It's not viable for everyone yet, but it's usable with range that many people can use. I even see Teslas up here in Alaska. The technology is gaining and hurdles are being overcome. People always act as if there's some giant "switch" someone is going to throw and after that date you have to turn in your ICE cars. Then they started the hysteria that Prius's were going to only go 5000 miles and they'd need batteries and there'd be batteries piling up everywhere. The scar-tactics are getting old. The transition will be gradual and there will be some niches where it takes decades at least to transition, but they eventually will.

In my lifetime I've seen practical electric vehicles go from a dream to reality, in use all over the world.

I ride my bike to work a lot of the time. In Alaska. In the winter.

Not gonna argue it here but EROEI on petroleum extraction is over 95% and applies to all fossil fuels, including the ones power plants burn, not just gas for cars. Recycling evs is a much larger and more energy intensive process vs ICE.

This topic is too emotional for facts most of the time. People are going to believe whatever lines up with their imagination. Suggesting actual calculations of energy use and it's return so you know what's real and what's BS is never embraced by people who already have their mind made up based on what they choose to believe.



And on-topic... it's not hard to do the math and figure out fuel savings for commuting, sometimes buying a commuter car works out, sometimes it doesn't.

[matt fe2o3]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

sometimes buying a commuter car works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Perfectly true - for a variety of reasons.

I once bought a commuter car because work would reimburse me the mileage rate and it was a heavy milage job - 40k a year easy - all hours of the night and day. So some 25 to 30 years ago it made perfect sense to by a small Nissan - and shoot the car would pay for itself.

So I did.

A couple weeks later there was a management restructuring and I ended up having a managers car forced on me for business use. An Aries K car

Not only did my new little Nissan NOT net me a coin, I got taxed on the personal use according to the lease value of the vehicle.

So things do change.

I for one think the emissions load new cars perform to is really good. It all comes down to personal preference.

[fastball]

I drive my Camaro every day. SS 6 speed. 24 MPG and I’m good. Sometimes less. Often less. Ok 20 MPG.

Don’t have kids, not married. Someone’s got to get my money before I die.

[c4racer]

Ok so gas may hit $5 a gallon. It’s been there before bound to happen again.
And it could easily drop to $3 or less awhile later.
Demand for gas in the US is dropping with more fuel efficient cars and EV plus more renewable sources vs burning oil for electricity. Also electrical demand on the public sector is going down with all the solar going up in the SW.

Gas and oil is a commodity. Like all commodities prices will fluctuate. And when they go up they tend to go back down at some point. I see no evidence of fundamentals here to suggest a upward only forever trend.

[TurboVet]

I'd pay $5 a gallon for gas in my 11 mpg truck before I give up my dignity driving a shit box. LOL

[the_swiSS]

Gas is $6.90 where I live, I don't see what you're all fussing about

I still smile every time I put the foot down.