[JamesNoBrakes]

I want to talk more about the people cruising at 75 in 4th.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I want to talk more about the people cruising at 75 in 4th.

Seriously.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're asserting that 1000 RPM does not equal 1000 RPM.


I'm rather amused at how you guys are tripping over yourself to make absolutely asinine arguments. The gear the transmission is in makes NO difference to the engine operation, so just stop pretending it does.

Gearing makes a huge difference.
Accelerating from 1000 rpm in first gear is completely different than accelerating from 1000 rpm in sixth.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're asserting that 1000 RPM does not equal 1000 RPM.


I'm rather amused at how you guys are tripping over yourself to make absolutely asinine arguments. The gear the transmission is in makes NO difference to the engine operation, so just stop pretending it does.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand that it takes more force (in a higher gear) to get the car moving from a lower speed or dead stop than if it's already running at a higher speed, and / or in a lower gear.

Sit on a bicycle and try to get moving in the highest gear, or when cruising at lower speeds, switch to the highest gear and try to pedal faster to accelerate. It's hard, much harder than if you chose a lower gear. It's EXACTLY the same concept with an engine.

Because this engine has so much torque, it's not easy to detect lugging like in a smaller less powerful one, but that does not mean it's not lugging or laboring. Is it going to fail?
Probably not, but the added force could lead to a problem later on. Or maybe never. Why take that chance? It's a bad habit, and whether you choose to accept that or not is irrelevant. It's in the manual for a reason.

[Ryephile]

None of you have been able to prove what lugging is, and are all disregarding the SAE certification, the only proof shown.


The only thing I'm seeing here is guys pretending that vehicle acceleration g-force relates to engine load. Do some datalogging for yourself. Load = Load, the gear you're in makes no difference to how the engine operates.


Again, what you perceive as acceleration isn't relevant. You guys are clearly confusing your emotional expectations with how the ECU operates.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

What we are talking about is low RPM events <1.2kish

Gearing directly impacts engine load.

The Engine is capable of supplying 460lbs of torque yes, higher loads due to gear ratios affect engine stresses.

Higher engine stresses at low RPM which means lower available oil pressure = more wear .

Why cause more wear to your engine?

You're confusing the terms.

Gearing doesn't impact load, your foot does. Gearing only impacts vehicle acceleration g-force, which isn't equal to load. Your foot requests a specific amount of torque, which then the ECU calculates if that's plausible and how to accomplish it.

You're also asserting, without proof, that the engine is not designed for an arbitrary load & RPM operation by citing heretofore unknown oil pressure figures. You're not discovering anything, just being ignorant to how the engine is designed and calibrated.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

...It's in the manual for a reason.

Show the figures in the manual that explicitly state which loads and RPMs are inadvisable.

You can't. All that's listed are vague terms with no concrete definition.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Show the figures in the manual that explicitly state which loads and RPMs are inadvisable.

You can't. All that's listed are vague terms with no concrete definition.

It's common sense, that's why they're not there. You don't need exact figures. High gear + low speed = engine works harder to accelerate.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

It's common sense, that's why they're not there. You don't need exact figures. High gear, low speed = engine works harder.

You're missing the key ingredient; torque request. You're also implying that there's some kind of extra load. There's WOT and that's peak load. That's it, you can't go above that.

Common sense eh? So obvious that so far none of you understand how the engine works.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

None of you have been able to prove what lugging is, and are all disregarding the SAE certification, the only proof shown.


The only thing I'm seeing here is guys pretending that vehicle acceleration g-force relates to engine load. Do some datalogging for yourself. Load = Load, the gear you're in makes no difference to how the engine operates.


Again, what you perceive as acceleration isn't relevant. You guys are clearly confusing your emotional expectations with how the ECU operates.

I'm already feeling sorry for your engine.

Have you ever lugged an engine? In my last car, learning to drive stick, I did it a lot. You can hear the engine tick and make a strange sound. Have you ever heard or experienced it?

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're missing the key ingredient; torque request. You're also implying that there's some kind of extra load. There's WOT and that's peak load. That's it, you can't go above that.

Common sense eh? So obvious that so far none of you understand how the engine works.

There are other forces involved in getting an object moving. Gravity, mass and intertia are considerations. A heavy object at rest will need a greater amount of force to get it moving then if it was already in motion. A lower gear means less work for the engine to overcome those two factors: Mass and gravity. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable in physics could explain it much better in more detail

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

There are other forces involved in getting an object moving. Gravity, mass and intertia are considerations. A heavy object at rest will need a greater amount of force to get it moving then if it was already in motion. A lower gear means less work for the engine two overcome those two factors: Mass and gravity. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable in physicals could explain it much better in more detail

Gravity eh?

Let's talk inertia. How many times per minute does a piston stop during it's cycle at 500 RPM? How about 6000 RPM? Doesn't matter for this topic. Does any of that impact Knock or LSPI? Of course. Are both of those dynamically adaptive? Yes. Therefore, irrelevant for this conversation.

You're still asserting some magical engine load greater than WOT. Let's say my foot is to the floor. What gear gives the most load? All of them. All of them also give different vehicle acceleration rates, which is an irrelevant metric in this conversation.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

It's common sense, that's why they're not there. You don't need exact figures. High gear + low speed = engine works harder to accelerate.

about 10 years ago I started a thread in a different forum about this. It was one of those 50 page arguments.


It does not matter if you're in 1st gear or 6th gear, at WOT the load is the same. There is the same amount resistance to the crankshaft. If you're making 460ftlbs, thats what you're making.


The only difference between "lugging" in 1st gear vs 6th gear, is that you're likely going to be doing it for a helluva lot longer in 6th gear.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

about 10 years ago I started a thread in a different forum about this. It was one of those 50 page arguments.


It does not matter if you're in 1st gear or 6th gear, at WOT the load is the same. There is the same amount resistance to the crankshaft. If you're making 460ftlbs, thats what you're making.


The only difference between "lugging" in 1st gear vs 6th gear, is that you're likely going to be doing it for a helluva lot longer in 6th gear.

The engine will lug in 6th at a higher speed than first so yes it will lug a lot longer and easier which is laboring the engine unnecessarily.

To address your statement in bold. Can you start from a dead stop in 6th? And if not, why?