[Expunge]

It is interesting that he said track days are covered if it is an SS or better. But what about the v6 1LE?

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Expunge

It is interesting that he said track days are covered if it is an SS or better. But what about the v6 1LE?

The V6 1LE I bet he considers an SS or better.

[OminouSS]

hahah. SEE! ambiguous. What owner doesnt think his car is 'better than...'? Hahaha. I just have to laugh. I may have something of value to add if the service dept gives me grief next Monday when the car goes in for the steering rack. That problem surfaced smack dab on the race track.

[17ZL1]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

So, there is actually fine print that covers window tint? I mean, some old farts have this added as a medical script.

Caution! If you live long enough you will be an Old Farthing too!

[barryb]

What Oppenheiser says about the warranty isn't true at the dealership. I took my SS 1LE to the track. After 10 minutes one of the brake pads disintegrated. By the time I got off the track, it had destroyed the rotor with the failed pad. 2500 miles on the car, and the dealer told me "not covered. That'll be $2,500 to fix". The service director, Eddy Wallace with Henna Chevrolet, went on to say "Technically for true race track use the brake pad material and cooling capacity is not even close to what would be needed". At least he offered to look into air ducting to solve the problem (at my expense).


I'm sure people will want to know more.


The "Technically for... " quote was directly cut and pasted from an e-mail to me by the service director.



The car was bone stock except for seats which accommodate a 5 point harness.


The car was prepped for track use per the track prep guide.


The tires were stock.


The brakes and pads were factory original, and I examined the brakes before going out to make sure that none of the pads needed replacement. All pads were several mm thicker than where the squealers engage (I'd guess 60-70% of new thickness.


The car had 2,500 miles on it.


That day, I was not running all out. I was running 1:25-1:27's. A fast lap at that track for me is 1:24.5.


The track was Harris Hill Raceway. The ambient temperature was around 100. For those of you familiar with the track, the failure occurred during the quick (1 second or less) brake application between turns 4 and 5. Turn 4 is after the fastest straight.



I called the dealer before bringing it in. I talked to a service manager and said "I've had a brake system failure. I believe it's covered under warranty but I want to be sure before bringing it in. The failure occurred on a race track, and the failure mode was a brake pad disintegrating".


The service manager asked me several questions :


What was your top speed? I replied "about 100". Please note that I later reviewed the video and my actual top speed was about 112.



What speed were you decelerating from when it happened? "If it happened where I think it did, about 65 to 50".


How many miles are on the car? "2500".


He said "let me check". After a 5 minute wait, he said "It's covered. bring it in".


I did. Two days later I get a call "Sorry. Not covered. These rotors were way, way overheated. We've never seen rotors so hot". So I said "If I did something wrong, I'll take responsibility. What would have made those rotors overheat"?


He replied "Riding the brakes". I said "I have performance data and video of the session showing that I didn't". He said "Send it in and I'll ask the guys to review".


After three weeks of my car sitting at the dealership and me asking for updates, the dealer finally said approximately "The GM area rep says not covered. But we'll do you a solid, cover half the pad cost and half the pad installation. But the rotors are your responsibility".


As many of you may know, the rotors for the SS 1LE are $750 each. I can buy the Ferodo factory pads online for half what the dealer would charge, and I could install new pads and rotors in less time than takes me to take the car to the selling dealer (they're an hour away, so it takes four hours of my time to drop the car off, two two hour round trips).




The bottom line? At least at some dealerships, the staff believes that the brake system on the SS 1LE track version is thoroughly inadequate and that failure on the track is not covered.

[carguy55]

Originally Posted by barryb

What Oppenheiser says about the warranty isn't true at the dealership. I took my SS 1LE to the track. After 10 minutes one of the brake pads disintegrated. By the time I got off the track, it had destroyed the rotor with the failed pad. 2500 miles on the car, and the dealer told me "not covered. That'll be $2,500 to fix". The service director, Eddy Wallace with Henna Chevrolet, went on to say "Technically for true race track use the brake pad material and cooling capacity is not even close to what would be needed". At least he offered to look into air ducting to solve the problem (at my expense).


I'm sure people will want to know more.


The "Technically for... " quote was directly cut and pasted from an e-mail to me by the service director.



The car was bone stock except for seats which accommodate a 5 point harness.


The car was prepped for track use per the track prep guide.


The tires were stock.


The brakes and pads were factory original, and I examined the brakes before going out to make sure that none of the pads needed replacement. All pads were several mm thicker than where the squealers engage (I'd guess 60-70% of new thickness.


The car had 2,500 miles on it.


That day, I was not running all out. I was running 1:25-1:27's. A fast lap at that track for me is 1:24.5.


The track was Harris Hill Raceway. The ambient temperature was around 100. For those of you familiar with the track, the failure occurred during the quick (1 second or less) brake application between turns 4 and 5. Turn 4 is after the fastest straight.



I called the dealer before bringing it in. I talked to a service manager and said "I've had a brake system failure. I believe it's covered under warranty but I want to be sure before bringing it in. The failure occurred on a race track, and the failure mode was a brake pad disintegrating".


The service manager asked me several questions :


What was your top speed? I replied "about 100". Please note that I later reviewed the video and my actual top speed was about 112.



What speed were you decelerating from when it happened? "If it happened where I think it did, about 65 to 50".


How many miles are on the car? "2500".


He said "let me check". After a 5 minute wait, he said "It's covered. bring it in".


I did. Two days later I get a call "Sorry. Not covered. These rotors were way, way overheated. We've never seen rotors so hot". So I said "If I did something wrong, I'll take responsibility. What would have made those rotors overheat"?


He replied "Riding the brakes". I said "I have performance data and video of the session showing that I didn't". He said "Send it in and I'll ask the guys to review".


After three weeks of my car sitting at the dealership and me asking for updates, the dealer finally said approximately "The GM area rep says not covered. But we'll do you a solid, cover half the pad cost and half the pad installation. But the rotors are your responsibility".


As many of you may know, the rotors for the SS 1LE are $750 each. I can buy the Ferodo factory pads online for half what the dealer would charge, and I could install new pads and rotors in less time than takes me to take the car to the selling dealer (they're an hour away, so it takes four hours of my time to drop the car off, two two hour round trips).




The bottom line? At least at some dealerships, the staff believes that the brake system on the SS 1LE track version is thoroughly inadequate and that failure on the track is not covered.

That's a load of BS. They're are ripping you off. I would be on the phone to the high person I could get with GM.

Dealers don't know much about these cars at all and even less about tracking them.

"If you're not modifying your car and you take your production car to a track day and you have an issue with one of your parts, it's covered under warranty," Oppenheiser told Motor Authority. "That's pride of craftsmanship that we know it will stand up to track use."

[Scraps0f]

Originally Posted by barryb

What Oppenheiser says about the warranty isn't true at the dealership. I took my SS 1LE to the track. After 10 minutes one of the brake pads disintegrated. By the time I got off the track, it had destroyed the rotor with the failed pad. 2500 miles on the car, and the dealer told me "not covered. That'll be $2,500 to fix". The service director, Eddy Wallace with Henna Chevrolet, went on to say "Technically for true race track use the brake pad material and cooling capacity is not even close to what would be needed". At least he offered to look into air ducting to solve the problem (at my expense).


I'm sure people will want to know more.


The "Technically for... " quote was directly cut and pasted from an e-mail to me by the service director.



The car was bone stock except for seats which accommodate a 5 point harness.


The car was prepped for track use per the track prep guide.


The tires were stock.


The brakes and pads were factory original, and I examined the brakes before going out to make sure that none of the pads needed replacement. All pads were several mm thicker than where the squealers engage (I'd guess 60-70% of new thickness.


The car had 2,500 miles on it.


That day, I was not running all out. I was running 1:25-1:27's. A fast lap at that track for me is 1:24.5.


The track was Harris Hill Raceway. The ambient temperature was around 100. For those of you familiar with the track, the failure occurred during the quick (1 second or less) brake application between turns 4 and 5. Turn 4 is after the fastest straight.



I called the dealer before bringing it in. I talked to a service manager and said "I've had a brake system failure. I believe it's covered under warranty but I want to be sure before bringing it in. The failure occurred on a race track, and the failure mode was a brake pad disintegrating".


The service manager asked me several questions :


What was your top speed? I replied "about 100". Please note that I later reviewed the video and my actual top speed was about 112.



What speed were you decelerating from when it happened? "If it happened where I think it did, about 65 to 50".


How many miles are on the car? "2500".


He said "let me check". After a 5 minute wait, he said "It's covered. bring it in".


I did. Two days later I get a call "Sorry. Not covered. These rotors were way, way overheated. We've never seen rotors so hot". So I said "If I did something wrong, I'll take responsibility. What would have made those rotors overheat"?


He replied "Riding the brakes". I said "I have performance data and video of the session showing that I didn't". He said "Send it in and I'll ask the guys to review".


After three weeks of my car sitting at the dealership and me asking for updates, the dealer finally said approximately "The GM area rep says not covered. But we'll do you a solid, cover half the pad cost and half the pad installation. But the rotors are your responsibility".


As many of you may know, the rotors for the SS 1LE are $750 each. I can buy the Ferodo factory pads online for half what the dealer would charge, and I could install new pads and rotors in less time than takes me to take the car to the selling dealer (they're an hour away, so it takes four hours of my time to drop the car off, two two hour round trips).




The bottom line? At least at some dealerships, the staff believes that the brake system on the SS 1LE track version is thoroughly inadequate and that failure on the track is not covered.

Has this dealership read the performance manual for bedding the breaks? LMAO

[dwill8335]

had mine at track s/c kept messing up Chevy covered it. Need to go up food chain. My guys at dealership in little ol Palatka Florida treat me right and go get things fixed knowing I track the car. I can't say enough it is the dealer not Chevy.

[Gunkk]

$2500 is a total ripoff for a single rotor and pair of pads. Either you've damaged way more than just that or


Call Brembo. Send them the broken pad. Maybe they will stand behind their product.

[hotlap]

I can see where pads and rotors are questionable. They are consumables, like tires, and when on a car that is tracked the odometer mileage isn’t significant.

[barryb]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I can see where pads and rotors are questionable. They are consumables, like tires, and when on a car that is tracked the odometer mileage isn’t significant.

I agree that they're consumables. If the price for rotors wasn't astronomical ($750 apiece), I never would have taken it to the dealer. I also wouldn't have expected warranty service except for the fact that the rotor didn't wear out. It was destroyed when the pad catastrophically failed.

The $2000+ quote was not for one side. They said that I needed to replace both front pads and rotors (I don't know why, but I could imagine a mismatch confusing the ABS).

What really struck me (and what really makes me angry) is the dealer/corporate statement dichotomy. Al says "Everything works great on a track and we stand behind it", while the dealer says "the braking system isn't up to track use and we don't stand behind it".

It could certainly be a dealer specific issue, but they did say they went up the chain to the area GM who agreed it wasn't covered by warranty but made a peace offering of paying for half the cost of pad repair (but no $$ for the rotors). And I shouldn't have to leave my car at the shop for more than a month slowly arguing my way up to corporate to get warranty service.

Heck, I'd be fine if Chevrolet had said in their track prep guide (and public statements) something like "the braking system, even on our 1LE variants, will overheat on some tracks. This overheating is not covered by warranty". But they don't. They say (paraphrasing) "We've tested the heck out of this thing on the track, and we stand behind all parts on the track. If it's stock and it breaks (not wears out, breaks) on track, we'll cover it".

The dealer said I would have been fine if I'd replaced my pads when they still had 60% of the friction material left (I think they did but I don't know the original thickness). Again, I'd be fine with this if the track prep guide said as much. But "oops, you found out the hard way. Sucks for you, but I'm telling you now so now you know" is tough to swallow. I also recognize the fact that the dealer both told me I'd be fine if I replaced at 60% and told me that the braking system isn't up for track use period, two statements at odds with each other.

At this point I've cried uncle and told the dealer I'd pay for it so I can get my car back. I just want others to know that standing behind the shield of "Chevrolet says they'll warrant my car when used on track" might result in disappointment. Even if you carefully follow all of their rules.

[Apexslayer]

How many track days did you do on these pads?

[barryb]

I don't know how many track days I did. A good number. I understand that pads are consumables, but I wanted to make people aware that not all dealers definition of "track use" is the same when it comes to warranty.

The dealer feels that I took some things out of context (I don't think I did) and that I misrepresented some facts (specifically the remaining pad thickness) which I guessed at, I drove the car straight to the dealer after it failed. I think it's important that I share the "on the record" part of their response :

I have read over the forum. I was giving you my opinion and If you want to make that public I really don’t care but you do need to get some facts corrected. Those pads have 20-30% left on both sides so nothing “came apart” as you say. The left front pad did start to delaminate from heat. I am sure that is what your talking about but the forum is taking that as the pad fell off basically. Im not saying that Brembo or GMs have no responsibility and that is why GM is willing to participate. You also took me out of context on saying the brake design is inadequate. It is perfectly fine for street and track use for “track days”. Track days are usually shorter runs with limited laps.

He said some more things to me which he asked me to keep off the record and I will respect that.

It seems that the bottom line is that the braking system will work great with pads at 60% or more and for shorter track sessions. If you're on a track which is hard on brakes, shorter may be just a few laps if you're driving near the car's limit.

It's not my intention to start a war here, only to help others understand what they can reasonably expect out of this car. I feel this car is a fabulous vehicle, incredibly track capable, and a steal at the price. The marketing would have you believe that you can take this car to the track and drive it at the limit all you want. This is not true for at least the brakes and tires.

I haven't posted anything on the tires because I thought it was well known that all tires have a limit, but some people may not expect that either. In my experience, the tires supplied on this car overheat (get over 100C and start to lose grip) in about 20 minutes of hard driving, so that's when I come off the track.

The brakes and pads (when new) seemed to not be the limiting factor. It may simply be that there is a minimum thickness for track use that Chevrolet needs to advise us of in the track prep guide.

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by barryb

I don't know how many track days I did. A good number. I understand that pads are consumables, but I wanted to make people aware that not all dealers definition of "track use" is the same when it comes to warranty.

The dealer feels that I took some things out of context (I don't think I did) and that I misrepresented some facts (specifically the remaining pad thickness) which I guessed at, I drove the car straight to the dealer after it failed. I think it's important that I share the "on the record" part of their response :

I have read over the forum. I was giving you my opinion and If you want to make that public I really don’t care but you do need to get some facts corrected. Those pads have 20-30% left on both sides so nothing “came apart” as you say. The left front pad did start to delaminate from heat. I am sure that is what your talking about but the forum is taking that as the pad fell off basically. Im not saying that Brembo or GMs have no responsibility and that is why GM is willing to participate. You also took me out of context on saying the brake design is inadequate. It is perfectly fine for street and track use for “track days”. Track days are usually shorter runs with limited laps.

He said some more things to me which he asked me to keep off the record and I will respect that.

It seems that the bottom line is that the braking system will work great with pads at 60% or more and for shorter track sessions. If you're on a track which is hard on brakes, shorter may be just a few laps if you're driving near the car's limit.

It's not my intention to start a war here, only to help others understand what they can reasonably expect out of this car. I feel this car is a fabulous vehicle, incredibly track capable, and a steal at the price. The marketing would have you believe that you can take this car to the track and drive it at the limit all you want. This is not true for at least the brakes and tires.

I haven't posted anything on the tires because I thought it was well known that all tires have a limit, but some people may not expect that either. In my experience, the tires supplied on this car overheat (get over 100C and start to lose grip) in about 20 minutes of hard driving, so that's when I come off the track.

The brakes and pads (when new) seemed to not be the limiting factor. It may simply be that there is a minimum thickness for track use that Chevrolet needs to advise us of in the track prep guide.

You may have posted this, but I didn't see it. How long were your sessions? I know that typical sessions in NASA, PCA or HOD HPDE events are usually about 20 minutes in length. Since tracks have different lengths and different lap times, the number of laps could vary by a significant amount. In most HPDE events, you get 4 sessions, with the 5th session on rare occasions.

Brakes and rotors are consumables. It is part of the expense of tracking these cars. Somewhere around 5-6 events, you can start looking to replace certain consumables (tires, brakes, etc.).