[AZ_1LE]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

Actually, I haven’t seen that happening in the real world. I owned one of the too-hot GT 350s, and one of our complaints to Ford was that the Mustang GTs never overheated or went into limp mode at the track, and the GT 350s should have been at least that good. And you’re right: The PP3 doesn’t get any additional coolers - just a larger radiator.

A good friend of mine has owned two GT350's. One was a 2016 and did not have the track package, the transmission overheated on a regular basis while on track and put the car in limp mode. It only took about 10 minutes of track time before it did this.

He sold his 2016, and bought a 2017 that had the track package. Guess what? Still overheated the transmission, this time in 15 minutes instead of 10. It's inexcusable and Ford basically told him there's nothing they can do.

One of the days he was on track, I was there with my 1LE. He and another friend of ours with a fully track prepped BOS302 were having overheating issues, the BOSS mustang was going into limp mode from engine oil temps, he ended up having to end his race early. I had 0 issues during 30 minute sessions, I even had the AC on in the staging lanes before the session started. The guys at GM REALLY did their homework with this car.

I wouldn't say that the GT350 overheating issue isn't blown out of proportion, but I saw first hand that it was definitely there on two of them, to the point where the owner ended up selling them out of frustration.

[Whitespeed]

Just did a build and price on both.

Mustang GT Fastback: $36,100
PP2: $6,500
301A: $2,000 (you're forced to take this with PP2)
Active Valve Exhaust: $895
Recaro Seats: $1,595
Total: $47,090

Camaro 1SS: $37,995
1LE: $7,000
Total: $44,995

Now, this isn't exactly apples to apples. There are some differences in the features, like the Mustang gets ambient lighting, which the Camaro doesn't, and the Camaro gets the HUD which the Mustang doesn't. But I consider things like that to be a wash.

Where it really counts performance wise, it's $2,000 more for the Mustang and it still falls short.

Nigel

[VinnAY]

that was a big gripe when the 18s started to show up with pricing which went up significantly over the 15-17

[50MileSmile]

Originally Posted by JBones81

Maybe when they get to the PP26 they'll surpass the 1LE

That’s a lot of PP!

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

Just did a build and price on both.

Mustang GT Fastback: $36,100
PP2: $6,500
301A: $2,000 (you're forced to take this with PP2)
Active Valve Exhaust: $895
Recaro Seats: $1,595
Total: $47,090

Camaro 1SS: $37,995
1LE: $7,000
Total: $44,995

Now, this isn't exactly apples to apples. There are some differences in the features, like the Mustang gets ambient lighting, which the Camaro doesn't, and the Camaro gets the HUD which the Mustang doesn't. But I consider things like that to be a wash.

Where it really counts performance wise, it's $2,000 more for the Mustang and it still falls short.

Nigel

I'd rather have HUD vs. ambient lighting any day of the week.

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

I'd rather have HUD vs. ambient lighting any day of the week.

Plus there's no eLSD available on the Mustang.

Does the Mustang have rev matching?

Nigel

[carguy55]

And if you want to track your PP2 you'll need to add coolers.....

2018 MUSTANG Owner’s Manual
For track day use with Performance Pack Level 2, we recommend that you add aftermarket transmission and differential coolers.

[ST1LE]

WOW! More expensive and no coolers or eLSD?!?! WTF?

What a joke, typical Ford these days. Glad I am not a diehard Ford guy, would suck for sure!

[MatthewAMEL]

I’m sure some from Mustang6 will flame me for this...(I got lifetime ban over there for saying this)

This is STOCK...
Camaro Turbo > EcoBoost Mustang
V6 1LE > GT
SS > GT PP1
SS 1LE > GT350
ZL1 > GT350R
ZL1 1LE = Ford GT

Discuss. ��

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

I’m sure some from Mustang6 will flame me for this...(I got lifetime ban over there for saying this)

This is STOCK...
Camaro Turbo > EcoBoost Mustang
V6 1LE > GT
SS > GT PP1
SS 1LE > GT350
ZL1 > GT350R
ZL1 1LE = Ford GT

Discuss. ��

GM has since the C5 days of the Corvette and since the Gen 5 Z28, and Gen 6 SS 1LE & ZL1 of the Camaro hit above their weight class in the handling and performance department.

The issue with GM in the past was quality. I had 4 C5 Z06s, 1 C6 Z06 and all of them had issues, 2 of them were bought back on the lemon law.

Even the C7 Corvette has many issues, however whatever the Camaro team has been doing is, it's working. I think in general you hear about a lot less problems with the Gen 6 Camaro than you do the C7 Corvette.

Ford is doing great things too, but they are not at the "track" level that the Camaro is at. It is really only in the last couple years that GM and Ford (as well as others) have started churning legit track cars right off the showroom floor and acknowledging there is a market for such cars.

I don't think Ford has fully accepted that transition yet and embraced that market. The only reason there is a PP2 to begin with is because they got their ass handed to them by the SS 1LE.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

I’m sure some from Mustang6 will flame me for this...(I got lifetime ban over there for saying this)

This is STOCK...
Camaro Turbo > EcoBoost Mustang
V6 1LE > GT
SS > GT PP1
SS 1LE > GT350
ZL1 > GT350R
ZL1 1LE = Ford GT

Discuss. ��

My only issue with that is the "ZL1 1LE=Ford GT" part.... I have to disagree there. Although I do think the new ZR1 is more than a match for the GT (already been proven at VIR), the ZL1 1LE is going to be a fair bit slower on most tracks mainly due to the power to weight deficit. With that said it's not far behind the $450k+ SUPER exclusive Ford flagship which is beyond inpressive.

[JBones81]

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

That’s a lot of PP!

Yep, I heard R Kelly just pre-ordered one

[ndnashlenz]

Originally Posted by JBones81

Yep, I heard R Kelly just pre-ordered one

[vtirocz]

PP2 is part of MT Best Drivers Car this year, so we’ll see lap times “soon.”