[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

Actually, he has a thread on Super Street Brawler with 93octane and he shows that configuration at 700rwhp running 11psi.

So, you can run more boost on 93octane, or you can run less boost on e85 and the power is pretty similar. Let's say it should be in the 675-725range depending on A8 v M6, etc.

Personally, I would like to go for no alky injection and instead use race fuel to get more timing on occasion.

Yea I seen that thread but I also seen another thread where 660whp was where they settled for safety with e60, cam, lt4 parts...that might of been a A8 car though....cant remember off hand. Either way I agree 660-720whp range depending on several variables.

[RideZX6R]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

The JRE package I referenced earlier saw 725rwhp with the manual transmission, 9psi, and e85. I imagine you will be very close to the same power. In that thread he said he found the fuel limit because at 11psi, the fuel system was not able to keep up with demand.

Are you planning to run road course or drag strip?

I know basically nothing about the JRE packages - what blower are these using? As PSI isn't necessarily as relevant as over whp (especially if not comparing like-for-like on blowers - ie not comparing PD vs Centri)

However from a whp-standpoint, I agree that I should be pretty similar.

Car will be doing 1-2 events for 1/2 and 1/4 miles but primarily will be used for lapping/track days on road courses - likely will see 4-8 of those per year, maybe some nights in Mexico too.

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

Actually, he has a thread on Super Street Brawler with 93octane and he shows that configuration at 700rwhp running 11psi.

So, you can run more boost on 93octane, or you can run less boost on e85 and the power is pretty similar. Let's say it should be in the 675-725range depending on A8 v M6, etc.

Personally, I would like to go for no alky injection and instead use race fuel to get more timing on occasion.

I agree with this to a point. On the street I'll probably run a mix of 92 and e85... for track days I'll probably run pure e85.

I plan to have it tuned on pure E85 but instruct my tuner to keep timing conservative as the car probably won't the temps on a dyno that it will on track, and this way I can do less to diminish the cooling properties of E85. I'd think track temps will get MUCH higher as the car will be basically full tilt for 20-30 mins, as opposed to just 3-4 dyno pulls. I also don't plan to go much higher than 9psi for the same heat-related reasons.

I originally spec'd the built for the car to have low DCR, low-ish temps (for a PD Blower), and be very responsive/punchy at any RPM. However I was thinking I'd see 600-625whp... And then I saw a recent-ish thread that had the same setup I have but with stock exhaust and no cam, and it made 640/640. So I immediately knew my car would surpass my expectations (and that's also why I bought drop-in pistons), and now it's just managing heat. So even if we go super-low on timing it should still make mid-high 600s, which is just fine with me

I am curious how cool it'll stay with those 3 big ass HXs tho.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Yea I seen that thread but I also seen another thread where 660whp was where they settled for safety with e60, cam, lt4 parts...that might of been a A8 car though....cant remember off hand. Either way I agree 660-720whp range depending on several variables.

This basically solidifies my decision to not buy any more fueling parts til it's dyno'd/tuned. If there's not a need to spend another $1k+ I won't do it.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by RideZX6R

I know basically nothing about the JRE packages - what blower are these using? As PSI isn't necessarily as relevant as over whp (especially if not comparing like-for-like on blowers - ie not comparing PD vs Centri)

However from a whp-standpoint, I agree that I should be pretty similar.

Car will be doing 1-2 events for 1/2 and 1/4 miles but primarily will be used for lapping/track days on road courses - likely will see 4-8 of those per year, maybe some nights in Mexico too.



I agree with this to a point. On the street I'll probably run a mix of 92 and e85... for track days I'll probably run pure e85.

I plan to have it tuned on pure E85 but instruct my tuner to keep timing conservative as the car probably won't the temps on a dyno that it will on track, and this way I can do less to diminish the cooling properties of E85. I'd think track temps will get MUCH higher as the car will be basically full tilt for 20-30 mins, as opposed to just 3-4 dyno pulls. I also don't plan to go much higher than 9psi for the same heat-related reasons.

I originally spec'd the built for the car to have low DCR, low-ish temps (for a PD Blower), and be very responsive/punchy at any RPM. However I was thinking I'd see 600-625whp... And then I saw a recent-ish thread that had the same setup I have but with stock exhaust and no cam, and it made 640/640. So I immediately knew my car would surpass my expectations (and that's also why I bought drop-in pistons), and now it's just managing heat. So even if we go super-low on timing it should still make mid-high 600s, which is just fine with me

I am curious how cool it'll stay with those 3 big ass HXs tho.



This basically solidifies my decision to not buy any more fueling parts til it's dyno'd/tuned. If there's not a need to spend another $1k+ I won't do it.

Pretty sure JRE does packages with all blowers. The one I was referencing was with a Magnuson since that is similar to your setup. I would expect to see power and boost be nearly identical on PD blowers. In other words, if you are running 7psi, you are at 550rwhp, if you run 10psi, you are in the 600whp range. Regardless, looking forward to your setup.

[PRAY]

I ran out of fuel in 5th (A8) on the drag pack at 720rw at 6,200. I have the full LT4 fuel system and cam with 32% fuel lobe. I sent the graph and logs to Ted and he verified I was out of fuel. I have done every tuning trick in the book that I know of as well. I am going to install Ted's voltage booster on this car to see what we can get. The weird thing is that the injector MS was under 6ms and we were still losing rail pressure. That one doesn't really make sense to me yet. I need to do some more injector timing work. On the track I didn't see the same injector ms issues I saw on the dyno.

I turned on the meth with a single 10 nozzle and it couldn't keep up. So we T'd the line and added a 7 nozzle as well to keep the fuel flat. I am however now questioning the dyno's WB sensor. Once I get the car to the track it spits out black smoke on the hit so it has to be rich.

I guess the limit boils down to the individual car and if it is A8 or M6.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by PRAY

I ran out of fuel in 5th (A8) on the drag pack at 720rw at 6,200. I have the full LT4 fuel system and cam with 32% fuel lobe. I sent the graph and logs to Ted and he verified I was out of fuel. I have done every tuning trick in the book that I know of as well. I am going to install Ted's voltage booster on this car to see what we can get. The weird thing is that the injector MS was under 6ms and we were still losing rail pressure. That one doesn't really make sense to me yet. I need to do some more injector timing work. On the track I didn't see the same injector ms issues I saw on the dyno.

I turned on the meth with a single 10 nozzle and it couldn't keep up. So we T'd the line and added a 7 nozzle as well to keep the fuel flat. I am however now questioning the dyno's WB sensor. Once I get the car to the track it spits out black smoke on the hit so it has to be rich.

I guess the limit boils down to the individual car and if it is A8 or M6.

We’re you running 93 octane plus alky for those results? Manual or a8?

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

We’re you running 93 octane plus alky for those results? Manual or a8?

Pump 93 ran out of fuel at 720rw. Alky took me to 785rw. I was in 5th gear in an A8 on the 305 Mickey R's.

[RideZX6R]

Originally Posted by PRAY

I turned on the meth with a single 10 nozzle and it couldn't keep up. So we T'd the line and added a 7 nozzle as well to keep the fuel flat. I am however now questioning the dyno's WB sensor. Once I get the car to the track it spits out black smoke on the hit so it has to be rich.

Sounds like a wideband issue indeed.

Originally Posted by PRAY

I guess the limit boils down to the individual car and if it is A8 or M6.

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

We’re you running 93 octane plus alky for those results? Manual or a8?

Originally Posted by PRAY

Pump 93 ran out of fuel at 720rw. Alky took me to 785rw. I was in 5th gear in an A8 on the 305 Mickey R's.

Ah - ok so I was specifically stating E85, but the car is an M6 so the trans should soak up less power.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by RideZX6R

Sounds like a wideband issue indeed.







Ah - ok so I was specifically stating E85, but the car is an M6 so the trans should soak up less power.

I only know the pump gas limits but you can backwards plan off of that for what you can get on E.

Another big question you need to ask is targeted AFR that guys are running out of fuel at and how much E% they are running when they post their numbers. I was targeting 12.0. Some say that they don't run out of fuel till x number but they are targeting a much leaner AFR. Others may be only running 30% E.

In the end, I think it is a personal trial and error exercise for the individual setting the car up to their allowable limits.

[RideZX6R]

Originally Posted by PRAY

I only know the pump gas limits but you can backwards plan off of that for what you can get on E.

Another big question you need to ask is targeted AFR that guys are running out of fuel at and how much E% they are running when they post their numbers. I was targeting 12.0. Some say that they don't run out of fuel till x number but they are targeting a much leaner AFR. Others may be only running 30% E.

In the end, I think it is a personal trial and error exercise for the individual setting the car up to their allowable limits.

Trial and error is basically the plan. I'm lucky that the E85 out of the pump (only 2 local stations carry it) is 80% or better (even in winter) every time. So that's useful.

I think we'll be on the slightly rich side for safety tho, so that's a concern as well.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by PRAY

I only know the pump gas limits but you can backwards plan off of that for what you can get on E.

Another big question you need to ask is targeted AFR that guys are running out of fuel at and how much E% they are running when they post their numbers. I was targeting 12.0. Some say that they don't run out of fuel till x number but they are targeting a much leaner AFR. Others may be only running 30% E.

In the end, I think it is a personal trial and error exercise for the individual setting the car up to their allowable limits.

Great info. I figured that 12 psi on 93 would be close to 700...but damn, I really didn’t think alky made THAT big of a difference.

E85 should make similar power on less boost. So everything matches up to the thread I referenced earlier.

RideZ, have you thought about Alky? Why or why not? I was trying to avoid it, but I am not sure I had solid reasoning.

Thanks.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

Great info. I figured that 12 psi on 93 would be close to 700...but damn, I really didn’t think alky made THAT big of a difference.

E85 should make similar power on less boost. So everything matches up to the thread I referenced earlier.

RideZ, have you thought about Alky? Why or why not? I was trying to avoid it, but I am not sure I had solid reasoning.

Thanks.

The meth didn't make all that much more power. Maybe 20rw. What it did do was allow me to continue to pull the car to 7K. The pump gas quit at 6,200 at 720rw. Had I been able to pull it to 7K I am sure it would have made 760rw or so. I think I added a degree of timing to the meth to clean it up a bit.

[RideZX6R]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

Great info. I figured that 12 psi on 93 would be close to 700...but damn, I really didn’t think alky made THAT big of a difference.

E85 should make similar power on less boost. So everything matches up to the thread I referenced earlier.

RideZ, have you thought about Alky? Why or why not? I was trying to avoid it, but I am not sure I had solid reasoning.
Thanks.

I'd prefer not to add expense/complication over what I'm already doing. Specifically it's one more thing to fail. I had meth injection fail on my twin turbo C5 a while back and it cost me a $4800 motor. So I like to keep to a fuel system only. Not to mention then you need to monitor 2 tank levels, etc.

Additionally I don't plan on adjusting or running more boost. It should be around 9psi with the stage 2 griptec pulley from WeaponX, but we'll see what actual is - and then weigh that against what fuel constraints we inherit at that boost level.

I will definitely update the thread

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by RideZX6R

I'd prefer not to add expense/complication over what I'm already doing. Specifically it's one more thing to fail. I had meth injection fail on my twin turbo C5 a while back and it cost me a $4800 motor. So I like to keep to a fuel system only. Not to mention then you need to monitor 2 tank levels, etc.

Additionally I don't plan on adjusting or running more boost. It should be around 9psi with the stage 2 griptec pulley from WeaponX, but we'll see what actual is - and then weigh that against what fuel constraints we inherit at that boost level.

I will definitely update the thread

Funny, one of my procharged cars was the C5 Vette...pushing without forged pistons caused my failure...this time going forged early. Live and learn.