[R.C. Collins]

Originally Posted by tyler731

i just switched from a 15gtpp to a ss 1le and as much as iv always been a mustang guy I can honestly say the camaro is a way better car, besides the fact it only cost me 2k more then the mustang when i bought it, it's also way more comfortable. the recaros in my mustang weren't made for broad people and i fit great in the camaro, and as far as the visibility complaint it really is a joke I'm 6'1 and 320lbs, I do strongman I'm not a small guy, and I can see and fit way Better in the camaro, all it takes is actually knowing how to set your mirrors its not the rocket science they try to make it out to be

+1. I'm nearly your size and the 1LE's Recaros fit me too. It's almost like they shapeshift to accommodate my body. I tried out a 2017 GT PP with the Recaros and there was no way i was gonna get comfortable. I was sitting on the seat, not in it like the 1LE's. Same thing happened when i test drove a Focus RS. Whoever at G.M. picked out the 1LE's seats was thinking.

[sgo1960]

Originally Posted by tyler731

i just switched from a 15gtpp to a ss 1le and as much as iv always been a mustang guy I can honestly say the camaro is a way better car, besides the fact it only cost me 2k more then the mustang when i bought it, it's also way more comfortable. the recaros in my mustang weren't made for broad people and i fit great in the camaro, and as far as the visibility complaint it really is a joke I'm 6'1 and 320lbs, I do strongman I'm not a small guy, and I can see and fit way Better in the camaro, all it takes is actually knowing how to set your mirrors its not the rocket science they try to make it out to be

YEa, I'm 6'1' 240 so I have similar concerns. The visibility in the Camaro for me isn't too bad. You are correct, setting the mirrors properly helps a lot. At least for me. The Mustang Recaro seats were a no go. Like others, I felt like I was sitting on the seat instead of in the seat. Very uncomfortable at least for my body size.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I just did a configuration on Ford's website. I didn't add in anything I thought was BS like stripe package etc. I spec'd it out the way I would want one. I added in the electronics package because I had to choose between that and the convenience package. So that was an extra $3K. If I could have it my way I would have added both packages but that is neither here nor there. And if I really did it my way I would have added in color options. But for the sake of not coming off as being biased I left it alone. MSRP was $61,140. Mind you the ZL1 has a lot of the options as standard that you have to add in on the Shelby. Anyway ZL1 MSRP with M6 trans and not adding in anything that I consider fluff brought the price to $62,795. Adding in GG and destination is a wash so let's leave that out. That makes the ZL1 $1,655 more expensive. And they both would be comparably optioned although the ZL1 would still have more options. Now could I mess around and configure the GT350 to be more expensive? I certainly can. And maybe those were the prices I saw when I looked at them earlier. I definitely saw some brand new GT350s at MSRP without markups coming in higher than Zl1s at other dealerships. That is saying a lot. And even still, an extra $1,655 for a car that is in a completely different universe of performance altogether and offering more options is a hell of a deal. You're paying the same or possibly more for the Shelby while getting much much less. That car in no way can match the ZL1 or even the SS 1LE.

I am not arguing any of that other stuff with you, just pointing out that there is no option combination on the GT350 (non R) that makes it have an MSRP higher than the MSRP of the ZL1.

http://www.willowbrookford.net/new-i...nchor-model-18

Here is an 18 350 at my local dealer. Only 2 possible options it is missing, is premium paint and stripes. If you add those it comes (premium paint 495, stripes 475) to 62,390 MSRP including GG Tax and destination.

Your exact words

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Looking at Mustangs even the current GT350 non-R is pricey. I saw quite a few of them with MSRP over what a ZL1 is. And that is the non-R. It is a shame that with Ford you have to pay much more for less performance.

All I was saying was MSRP to MSRP, that is not possible.

And I 100% agree you with you though, that is a ton of coin when for basically the same amount of $ you can get a ZL1 with a lot more power.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I am not arguing any of that other stuff with you, just pointing out that there is no option combination on the GT350 (non R) that makes it have an MSRP higher than the MSRP of the ZL1.

http://www.willowbrookford.net/new-i...nchor-model-18

Here is an 18 350 at my local dealer. Only 2 possible options it is missing, is premium paint and stripes. If you add those it comes (premium paint 495, stripes 475) to 62,390 MSRP including GG Tax and destination.

Your exact words



All I was saying was MSRP to MSRP, that is not possible.

And I 100% agree you with you though, that is a ton of coin when for basically the same amount of $ you can get a ZL1 with a lot more power.

The most expensive build I got the GT350 up to was $62,485. The Cheapest the ZL1 came out to was $62,795. That is a difference of $310. So is it possible that the dealership threw in a bunch of stuff that added to the MSRP of the Mustang? Maybe cargo net and floor mats and other bullshit? Yes that is possible. I didn't look at all the options and everything included on both cars. I was window shopping. The GT350s I saw said they were at MSRP and so did the ZL1s I saw. I took it at face value. If you wanna list every detail on each of those cars then go right ahead. I saw GT350s listed at "MSRP, and they were more expensive than a few ZL1s that were listed at "MSRP". Don't sit here trying to make it look like I'm making shit up. These dealership always throw in stuff to bring the price up. Heavy duty floor mats, coin holder, trunk ice cooler, trunk organizer, sun visor organizer, locking lug nut package, battery charger, flat tire repair kit, custom matching colored this and that, custom engine accent kit...basically anything they can throw in. I'm not saying the difference in price was significant and I sure as hell don't know what was done to get the GT350 up that high. But they were higher.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The most expensive build I got the GT350 up to was $62,485. The Cheapest the ZL1 came out to was $62,795. That is a difference of $310. So is it possible that the dealership threw in a bunch of stuff that added to the MSRP of the Mustang? Maybe cargo net and floor mats and other bullshit? Yes that is possible. I didn't look at all the options and everything included on both cars. I was window shopping. The GT350s I saw said they were at MSRP and so did the ZL1s I saw. I took it at face value. If you wanna list every detail on each of those cars then go right ahead. I saw GT350s listed at "MSRP, and they were more expensive than a few ZL1s that were listed at "MSRP". Don't sit here trying to make it look like I'm making shit up. These dealership always throw in stuff to bring the price up. Heavy duty floor mats, coin holder, trunk ice cooler, trunk organizer, sun visor organizer, locking lug nut package, battery charger, flat tire repair kit, custom matching colored this and that, custom engine accent kit...basically anything they can throw in. I'm not saying the difference in price was significant and I sure as hell don't know what was done to get the GT350 up that high. But they were higher.

If you option premium paint, stripes, and black roof the GT350 comes to 62,805. Fords configurator says you can option it that way. Which is 100.00 more than a ZL1.

[shaffe]

we are just arguing semantics now (as if it was different before lol) . Dealer adding on stuff is possible so I will give you that.

I was going by what Chevy and Ford say on their websites

If you go to both websites and build and price them, there is no possible option combo listed from the factory where a 350 is more than a ZL1.

Didn't mean to come off as calling you out either it's all good bud, something must have been pissing me off in the back of my mind yesterday when I replied lol.



I also got a 350 up to the same price you did which is weird, because if you look at the window sticker of the one I posted, even if you add the 2 options it's missing that price isn't possible lol.

base price is 55,845

GG Tax 1,300
Car Cover 375
Electronics pack 3,000

That comes to

60,520 add 900 for destination and you have 61,420. If you add the most expensive paint and stripe package (475 for stripes and 495 for paint) 62,390 that should be the most expensive buildable combo from the factory

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

If you option premium paint, stripes, and black roof the GT350 comes to 62,805. Fords configurator says you can option it that way. Which is 100.00 more than a ZL1.

Black roof totally missed that one.

So I guess serve me up some crow since we are going to count the 1K bonus cash Chevy is offering as MSRP.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The MSRP of the ZL1 is 63,795. 61,500 for the vehicle, 995 destination and 1300 for gas guzzler tax. = MSRP of 63,795

There is currently a 1,000 cash allowance/rebate to bring the price to 62,795

I'll just leave this here...

[shaffe]

And what does the net price show? It shows an MSRP of 63,795 less 1,000 cash allowance.

"† MSRP less cash offers. "

That is an available incentive. You want to call it a technicality fine by me but the MSRP of the car is 63,795.

From the calculate payments window

"Ultra-Low-Mileage lease for Well-Qualified lessees. $763/month 48 month lease. $7,012 due at signing (after all offers). No security deposit required. Tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment extra. Mileage charge of $0.25 per mile over 40,000 miles. Example based on survey. Each dealer sets own price. Your payments may vary. Payments are for a 2018 Camaro RWD Coupe ZL1 with an MSRP of $63,795. "

And yes I am well aware this is all semantics and petty stuff to debate over lol

[torqueaddict]

There is rumor of a clutch tsb for the 2018s GTs, possibly even a recall. This guy blew up his clutch while launching:



Had I bought one, I'd have traded it in and jumped ship to something else. No frigging way was I keeping it or dealing with Ford. You got to admire the guys with problems who seem to be holding it together.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

And what does the net price show? It shows an MSRP of 63,795 less 1,000 cash allowance.

"† MSRP less cash offers. "

That is an available incentive. You want to call it a technicality fine by me but the MSRP of the car is 63,795.

From the calculate payments window

"Ultra-Low-Mileage lease for Well-Qualified lessees. $763/month 48 month lease. $7,012 due at signing (after all offers). No security deposit required. Tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment extra. Mileage charge of $0.25 per mile over 40,000 miles. Example based on survey. Each dealer sets own price. Your payments may vary. Payments are for a 2018 Camaro RWD Coupe ZL1 with an MSRP of $63,795. "

And yes I am well aware this is all semantics and petty stuff to debate over lol

You're talking "net price". That is the $63,795 you saw. The "MSRP" is the $62,495. Like I said, I was on some websites looking at prices and I saw some dealerships with GT350s and the "MSRP" for those dealerships were higher than the "MSRP" I saw on some Chevy dealerships for the ZL1. It is as plain as that. I did the build on both sites and you have that info already. Now are some dealerships throwing in a bunch of stuff to up-sell the GT350? Maybe. But it is still part of the price. My ZL1 had the car cover, battery charger, locking wheel lugnuts, and some other items thrown in that added to the price and made the MSRP higher than what it was without all that stuff. It is still the vehicle's MSRP. Now if I go to Chevy's website and option in everything that came with the car besides the add-ons, the "MSRP" will be lower than mine. But it is still "MSRP" no matter how you slice it. There are several GT350 non-Rs that are coming in more expensive than ZL1s when both are at dealerships (not on the website) and listed as "MSRP".

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I am not arguing any of that other stuff with you, just pointing out that there is no option combination on the GT350 (non R) that makes it have an MSRP higher than the MSRP of the ZL1.

http://www.willowbrookford.net/new-i...nchor-model-18

Here is an 18 350 at my local dealer. Only 2 possible options it is missing, is premium paint and stripes. If you add those it comes (premium paint 495, stripes 475) to 62,390 MSRP including GG Tax and destination.

Your exact words



All I was saying was MSRP to MSRP, that is not possible.

And I 100% agree you with you though, that is a ton of coin when for basically the same amount of $ you can get a ZL1 with a lot more power.

I'm guessing what he meant to say is you can buy a low option ZL1 for less than a GT350. Chevy has to offer discounts to move the new ZL1, Ford doesn't to move the now 3 yr old GT350. Price you actually pay for the ZL1 may be cheaper.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm guessing what he meant to say is you can buy a low option ZL1 for less than a GT350. Chevy has to offer discounts to move the new ZL1, Ford doesn't to move the now 3 yr old GT350. Price you actually pay for the ZL1 may be cheaper.

The base model ZL1 is better optioned than the GT350 is at max. Considering the base 350 is almost 20k more than the SS1LE is laughable. They should have dropped both the 350 and 350R for this model year. They could have made the GT PP2 a lot better. Maybe.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The base model ZL1 is better optioned than the GT350 is at max. Considering the base 350 is almost 20k more than the SS1LE is laughable. They should have dropped both the 350 and 350R for this model year. They could have made the GT PP2 a lot better. Maybe.

Yes they COULD have done that, but why? If they dropped the 350/350R and made the PP2 a true 1LE competitor they could have

• Bragging rights for best showroom stock track car
• Marginally more GT PP2 sales at significantly less profit per vehicle than the 350/350R that got dropped

By going the direction they went they have

• Maintained availability of a car that transacts above MSRP and probably makes 5-digit profit
• No problems selling a car that performs at about 85 - 90% of its potential
• A fair number of irritated enthusiasts lamenting the factor that the GT PP2 can at best close the performance gap on its most logical competitor (1LE)

If you are Ford management, only the second option makes any sense at all. Do that and manage the GT350 / ZL1 discussion by promising that the GT500 is coming.....eventually.