[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What I don't understand is if the 6th Gen Camaro is such an engineering success, has all the performance standards, is such a performance bargain, wins the publication shootouts, but yet still doesn't sell. People don't want it.

January Sales:

Mustang 4732
Camaro 2867
Challenger 3405

It's actually pretty simple. And Mustang is about to see exactly how this works.

To get a top performing V8 Camaro you wind up needing to go to 1SS, 2SS, or 1SS 1LE. You could get an almost equally performing Mustang or Challenger for several thousand less.

With the new upgrade, getting near SS performance in Mustang will actually cost the same as or more than Camaro. Case in point... here's a sticker from a 2018 Mustang GT Vert PP1. It's over $1,000 more than my 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Vert, even with extra charge for the H50 package. Plus, the Mustang doesn't have HUD, a fully automated top with hard tonneau cover, rear Brembos, and several other goodies. In 2017, the Mustang GT Vert had a significant price advantage over Camaro. Not in 2018, and the same dynamic exists for the coupe / fastback.

[keon718nyc]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its amazing that even the now 9-yro Challenger is even kicking the Camaro's tail. We can assume it is not the performance/price holding the Camaro back, is it the exterior looks and poor interior?

Maybe more JD Powers commercials is what it needs to get back in the race

Poor exterior/interior... uhhh... No, No my friend you have it all wrong.

9yr old Challenger doing nothing right now other then looking the same as usual and adding more power (Hooray!). Many are tired of the 9yr old look don't ya think? Boring ass interior too. Lets not go there with Mustang and their cheap chrome plated switches that fade over time

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its amazing that even the now 9-yro Challenger is even kicking the Camaro's tail. We can assume it is not the performance/price holding the Camaro back, is it the exterior looks and poor interior?

Maybe more JD Powers commercials is what it needs to get back in the race

Yet the Challenger always finishes the year with sales below Camaro so Also, last year MEDISIN provided data that showed 1/3 of Mustang and Challenger sales were fleet and Camaro was actually the first choice of individual buyers at a significantly higher ATP.

I also see Fiat Chrysler sales are down 13% this month. The 17th consecutive decline. Is FCA going to be able to continue building the Challenger at such low volumes when 1/3 are giveaways?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its amazing that even the now 9-yro Challenger is even kicking the Camaro's tail. We can assume it is not the performance/price holding the Camaro back, is it the exterior looks and poor interior?

Maybe more JD Powers commercials is what it needs to get back in the race

Again, really simple....

Much lower price + most Challengers sold are V6 + high number of rental car sales vs Camaro restricts rental car sales and has a very steep jump from L4 and V6 to V8.

Challenger has a non-competitive low priced V6 and also has a 375 hp V8 available for a $3,500 trim upgrade. To get a V8 in a Camaro requires an almost $9,000 trim upgrade. So someone wanting a cheap V8 can get a 375 hp Challenger. Then they can pull up to a 335 hp V6 Camaro and cross their fingers.

[newmoon]

Thank you for all the responses. I just wanted to make sure all of the typical poor sales responses were still in place.

[shaffe]

AS far as the ZR1 lap, damn! That thing was flying.

Now I will ask Blaq though, the ZR1 was not 100% show room stock should the run have an * on it? lol but all seriousness, bravo can't wait to see it rip around some tracks

Originally Posted by hotlap

Yet the Challenger always finishes the year with sales below Camaro so Also, last year MEDISIN provided data that showed 1/3 of Mustang and Challenger sales were fleet and Camaro was actually the first choice of individual buyers at a significantly higher ATP.

I also see Fiat Chrysler sales are down 13% this month. The 17th consecutive decline. Is FCA going to be able to continue building the Challenger at such low volumes when 1/3 are giveaways?

Volume can keep the factory lights on though, with the abysmal sales of the CTS and ATS it isn't the best situation. But like you said though the higher ATP is the shining light.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Thank you for all the responses. I just wanted to make sure all of the typical poor sales responses were still in place.

You're welcome newmoon. Always happy to share reality with you

Seriously. Certainly GM wants more from ATS/CTS/Camaro but none need to care the load by itself.

There will be an Alpha2 so a gen7 Camaro looks like it will happen. I'll add that GM has also put a lot of effort into elevating the Camaro's credentials as a legitimate "sports car" so it now has more of a roll as a halo car for Chevy IMO.

Plus.. GM 2018 isn't GM 2008. If Camaro is canceled its because the market no longer exists. GM couldn't afford to do Camaro in 2002

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Thank you for all the responses. I just wanted to make sure all of the typical poor sales responses were still in place.

Yes, they are. Right on the shelf next to the "Why Mustang can't win H2H" responses.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You're welcome newmoon. Always happy to share reality with you

Seriously. Certainly GM wants more from ATS/CTS/Camaro but none need to care the load by itself.

There will be an Alpha2 so a gen7 Camaro looks like it will happen. I'll add that GM has also put a lot of effort into elevating the Camaro's credentials as a legitimate "sports car" so it now has more of a roll as a halo car for Chevy IMO. Plus.. GM 2018 isn't GM 2008

Well said.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well said.

Thank you.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Thank you for all the responses. I just wanted to make sure all of the typical poor sales responses were still in place.

Just your daily dose of troll behavior.

[Spartan268]

PRIUS - 6,943


Ergo; Toyota Prius over the mustang.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Now I will ask Blaq though, the ZR1 was not 100% show room stock should the run have an * on it? lol but all seriousness, bravo can't wait to see it rip around some tracks

The ZR1 was not 100% showroom stock as it had a seatbelt harness and a harness bar on it. From what I could tell those were for safety and had no impact on performance. But maybe it could be argued that without those seat items the driver would have been bouncing around and not have been able to get such a phenomenal result. It is a stretch but I'll admit that someone could make that argument. If you wanna make it then fine by me. But that just means GM would have to redesign a better seat...or not.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What I don't understand is if the 6th Gen Camaro is such an engineering success, has all the performance standards, is such a performance bargain, wins the publication shootouts, but yet still doesn't sell. People don't want it.

January Sales:

Mustang 4732
Camaro 2867
Challenger 3405

The Mustang selling better is not indicative of a vehicle's performance first off. So how you link the two is beyond me. Also, yet again, the fact that you have no leg to stand on performance-wise and must result to a post that seems more to make fun of the Camaro shows how childish Mustang guys get whenever they lose a performance comparison. Are you going to bring up 03-09 next?

Also, the Mustang selling better means just that...it sells better. You can't automatically conclude that it selling more is equivalent to the Camaro being a sales failure. Does the Camaro outsell the Mustang? Sometimes yes, on average no. That has been historical. But is the Camaro selling enough to make it profitable and a success in it's own right? I would argue that it does. As an example, there were some months where the Mustang sold much less than it normally did previously. Did that spell doom for them? No. So the Camaro had a horrible month or two. Hell the Challenger seems to ALWAYS have bad sales months. Sometimes it'll outsell the Camaro and Mustang tho. This has been going on since forever with the Challenger. But they still make enough and sell enough that they can comfortably continue to produce them.

Does that satisfy your argument or is it a typical Camaro reply?