[fastball]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

It might be important to specify that the more extreme summer tires are more prone to this situation...."regular" summer tires will still get stiffer as they get colder and loose traction...but may not crack...or may tolerate colder temps.

Originally Posted by CruzySS

Exactly. Summer performance tires won't crack just sitting in the cold. Some may crack if there is a load on them and moved in the extreme cold.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I'll say this much - the tires on the ZL1 1LE are shot (ordering new ones for the spring)...so I was curious and decided to leave them on the car as it sat outside in the garage for the winter. It's under a cover, but I am curious to see the results.

Well, I didn't want to chance it with a brand new car, and after I read about the problems Cadillac V-series owners were having with their tires cracking in cold weather and the dealer memo GM sent all Cadillac dealers telling them not to cover cracked summer tires under warranty, I didn't want to take a chance.

V-Series owners have had tires crack just sitting in the garage in sub-40 degree temps not even driving the cars.

I don't know if the V-Series cars use the same rubber our SSs do, but I do know they're summer only like ours.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I'm not saying don't do it, you can get some winter tires and get them switched out, which is another $200 or so a year, or get a dedicated set on wheels you can switch out, but it's a lot more than $600. The main benefit to me is that you can switch it when you want and it allows you to go that much more nuts with the summer rubber, which is well worth it. Maximum traction in both realms, rather than a compromise in all.

To me a winter tire/wheel package works the best. You save that $200/yr by easily swapping the set out yourself (I guess I'm assuming SS owners have their own jacks and tools required for changing a wheel).

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

My guess is cost...and that's not a dig. You're looking at at least $1000 for a budget friendly setup...$1800-2000 for a good set. That's a hard pill to swallow for some.

Luckily, when I bought my car through Tom Henry, he allowed me to purchase a set of wheels and tires and finance it all together with the initial vehicle purchase on my 2014.

I just couldn't even fathom driving the car through the winter/cold with summer tires. It's no fun, and it's dangerous to myself and others on the road. That said, that car was my only vehicle and daily driver. That makes a big difference, too.

I understand that, but it should have been taken into account of the cost of ownership of our vehicles. What's $1500 more compared to the cost of losing traction in the OP's scenario, but wrecking the car and possibly another car because they couldn't stomach that $1500 for appropriate tires? Now in the case of TJ where he has a DD and the Camaro is rarely driven, yeah that cost of another wheel/tire setup is harder to justify. From that perspective I could understand not plunking down the money, but would just put the Camaro to sleep for the winter....

I purposely bought my Camaro in March so I could have April-October to save back up for a winter setup( which I went with the 18" rims from the LT). It's a cost I knew I would have to spend for if I decided to buy the Camaro. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't have bought the Camaro.

Originally Posted by ecko04

For members to come here and say that the stock summer rubber, that comes with a warning of being operated in less than 40 degree temperatures being hazardous, give guidance and advice that they’re fine in cold and snow despite the Goodyear warning is downright dangerous.

Why even bother chancing it if you can afford a $600 winter/snow wheel and tire setup? It is just mind boggling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That brings up another issue.... You could be opening yourself up to being sued for choosing to drive in these cold temps/snow with summer tires and potentially losing traction and causing an accident.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by fastball

Well, I didn't want to chance it with a brand new car, and after I read about the problems Cadillac V-series owners were having with their tires cracking in cold weather and the dealer memo GM sent all Cadillac dealers telling them not to cover cracked summer tires under warranty, I didn't want to take a chance.

V-Series owners have had tires crack just sitting in the garage in sub-40 degree temps not even driving the cars.

I don't know if the V-Series cars use the same rubber our SSs do, but I do know they're summer only like ours.

I think the Cadillac Vs all use Michelin Super Sport. Nevertheless - you're spot on.

But I've heard many people say they're fine, as long as you don't move them...all my Camaros have had tires with cold temp warnings associated with them...the first ZL1 never had any problems sitting in a garage over the winter, but the garage was heated. The SS 1LE got a set of winter tires and the summer ones were stored inside. So I've never been able to see for myself.

This will be the first time to see what happens in truly cold temperatures to these tires...and since they're ready to be replaced anyways, why not?

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

I understand that, but it should have been taken into account of the cost of ownership of our vehicles. What's $1500 more compared to the cost of losing traction in the OP's scenario, but wrecking the car and possibly another car because they couldn't stomach that $1500 for appropriate tires? Now in the case of TJ where he has a DD and the Camaro is rarely driven, yeah that cost of another wheel/tire setup is harder to justify. From that perspective I could understand not plunking down the money, but would just put the Camaro to sleep for the winter....

I purposely bought my Camaro in March so I could have April-October to save back up for a winter setup( which I went with the 18" rims from the LT). It's a cost I knew I would have to spend for if I decided to buy the Camaro. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't have bought the Camaro.

That brings up another issue.... You could be opening yourself up to being sued for choosing to drive in these cold temps/snow with summer tires and potentially losing traction and causing an accident.

You'll get no argument from me!

Just commenting based on conversations I've had with folks that don't drive these sorts of cars. Many don't see the value.

I am a FIRM believer in winter tires for cold/snowy climates. So much so that I bought a set for the Sonic. It wasn't even a question or consideration of cost - it was going to happen, so I planned accordingly.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

$600 winter snow tire/wheel setup? You've got to be kidding me...

You misunderstood my post.

I got my setup for roughly $600.

In November, I found some BMW 19x8.5 wheels on CL ($200), 72.56mm to 66.9mm hubcentric rings ($11), practically new 245/45/19 Blizzak LM60 tires on CL ($250), TPMS sensors $55, and paid another $100 for mounting and balancing.

Since then, I picked up a set of takeoff 245/45/R19 Goodyear A/S tires since it seems as though my area won’t see many snowfalls.

I have a decent winter wheel/tire setup and my stock set is tucked away until April rolls around. This is a more than acceptable setup for the climate in my area.

Now, I agree with you in a sense that if someone prefers to package everything together new from TireRack, Discount Tire Direct, someone is a wheel enthusiast, insist on running wider tires in the winter or apprehensive towards buying anything used then absolutely you’ll be in over $1,300 before UPS drops off the package.

If I still lived in Pennsylvania I would go a step further and look for an 18” wheel that clears the SS calipers to get into the Blizzak WS series tire as opposed to the performance winter LM series.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by ecko04

You misunderstood my post.

I got my setup for roughly $600.

In November, I found some BMW 19x8.5 wheels on CL ($200), 72.56mm to 66.9mm hubcentric rings ($11), practically new 245/45/19 Blizzak LM60 tires on CL ($250), TPMS sensors $55, and paid another $100 for mounting and balancing.

Since then, I picked up a set of takeoff 245/45/R19 Goodyear A/S tires since it seems as though my area won’t see many snowfalls.

I have a decent winter wheel/tire setup and my stock set is tucked away until April rolls around. This is a more than acceptable setup for the climate in my area.

Now, I agree with you in a sense that if someone prefers to package everything together new from TireRack, Discount Tire Direct, someone is a wheel enthusiast, insist on running wider tires in the winter or apprehensive towards buying anything used then absolutely you’ll be in over $1,300 before UPS drops off the package.

If I still lived in Pennsylvania I would go a step further and look for an 18” wheel that clears the SS calipers to get into the Blizzak WS series tire as opposed to the performance winter LM series.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Even if one is going to try and do it all on craigslist or something like that, the chances of putting together a package for only $600 are slim to not-going-to-happen, I agree that it's a good investment, but I disagree that your experience should be used to explain how 99% of people would be able to do this.

You are specifically implying here that people can duplicate your find:

Why even bother chancing it if you can afford a $600 winter/snow
wheel and tire setup? It is just mind boggling.

I find this to be highly unrealistic.

[PinHead]

Originally Posted by mako22

I took my chances in 20 degree weather today and took the car out of the garage on the stock tires. On the highway, I went to make a simple lane change with light acceleration and completely lost traction - car went sideways one way, then the other before I got it under control.

I bet you ran around with scissors as a kid too

[TJay74]

Physical location in the USA plays into these factors as well. Our winters are not as harsh in Oklahoma, we rarely see 20's and when we do it is for a short time frame. Winter tires are not a great option for us, we just dont see enough snow weather to warrant them. All Season tires do really well here for us. I have Continental DWS06 on the wife's Audi and it is a beast in any of the winter weather we get, my truck has Nitto Terra Grapplers on it and with the 4wd gets thru anything I have to drive thru.

The Camaro isnt my 1st car with summer only tires, my 2009 G8 GXP and my 2008 Corvette both had Michelin Pilot SS tires on them, drove them in cold temps and never had an issue with traction or tires splitting. Same goes for the Camaro now, I replace the stock GY F1 G3 tires with the Michelin Pilot 4s tires and they have done very well in our cold temps.

As long as it isnt lower than around 25° and will at least get to 40° as a day time high then I will drive my Camaro as long as the roads are dry.

I have yet to ever see any drive being faulted or sued because they drove a car on summer tires when it was cold. That is scare tactic mentality and falls in line with those who say if you have to shoot someone while defending your home and if you use self defense ammo of a jacket hollowpoint that you will be sued for excessive force.

Never seen or heard of one case where those topics were brought up and used in litigation.

Be safe peeps, sorry those of you who live in the colder climates cant drive your cars. I will give a rev for you tomorrow when the Camaro gets out of the garage.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by TJay74

Physical location in the USA plays into these factors as well. Our winters are not as harsh in Oklahoma, we rarely see 20's and when we do it is for a short time frame. Winter tires are not a great option for us, we just dont see enough snow weather to warrant them. All Season tires do really well here for us. I have Continental DWS06 on the wife's Audi and it is a beast in any of the winter weather we get, my truck has Nitto Terra Grapplers on it and with the 4wd gets thru anything I have to drive thru.

The Camaro isnt my 1st car with summer only tires, my 2009 G8 GXP and my 2008 Corvette both had Michelin Pilot SS tires on them, drove them in cold temps and never had an issue with traction or tires splitting. Same goes for the Camaro now, I replace the stock GY F1 G3 tires with the Michelin Pilot 4s tires and they have done very well in our cold temps.

As long as it isnt lower than around 25° and will at least get to 40° as a day time high then I will drive my Camaro as long as the roads are dry.

I have yet to ever see any drive being faulted or sued because they drove a car on summer tires when it was cold. That is scare tactic mentality and falls in line with those who say if you have to shoot someone while defending your home and if you use self defense ammo of a jacket hollowpoint that you will be sued for excessive force.

Never seen or heard of one case where those topics were brought up and used in litigation.

Be safe peeps, sorry those of you who live in the colder climates cant drive your cars. I will give a rev for you tomorrow when the Camaro gets out of the garage.

If I lived in OK (I travel there several times a year) I'd just go summers all the time and take a bus or walk on a day where you get 2" of freezing rain. Seriously, the entire state shuts down for that, so it's not like most people have to get to work. Yes, it can get frigid for a day or so when a cold front sweeps through, but it usually turns around real fast and as long as you are keeping the car in the garage, should be fine. Ample sunlight in that part of the country will keep the roads warm and driving will heat up the tires too. Way low on the list of things I'd worry about. I see lots of people at work in OK with summer performance tires. You'd have to go a few states North IMO to make it worthwhile. I just wouldn't want to take the hit of all-seasons. Those are good for the family car...

[wingchunsifu]

I have always driven in freezing or even sub freezing temps over the last 10 years with all the different muscle cars I've cycled through that came with summer tires. Never did I take them out when there was snow or ice on the road. I have a Jeep as the daily driver and for inclement weather. No issues except when I was running late for work in 2007 and pushed my 07 Mustang GT with Pirelli P Zeros passing a taxi and went into a triple repeat 180 in sub freezing weather.

I treat dry pavement like I'm driving on ice so now there are no surprises

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by TJay74

Physical location in the USA plays into these factors as well. Our winters are not as harsh in Oklahoma, we rarely see 20's and when we do it is for a short time frame. Winter tires are not a great option for us, we just dont see enough snow weather to warrant them. All Season tires do really well here for us. I have Continental DWS06 on the wife's Audi and it is a beast in any of the winter weather we get, my truck has Nitto Terra Grapplers on it and with the 4wd gets thru anything I have to drive thru.

The Camaro isnt my 1st car with summer only tires, my 2009 G8 GXP and my 2008 Corvette both had Michelin Pilot SS tires on them, drove them in cold temps and never had an issue with traction or tires splitting. Same goes for the Camaro now, I replace the stock GY F1 G3 tires with the Michelin Pilot 4s tires and they have done very well in our cold temps.

As long as it isnt lower than around 25° and will at least get to 40° as a day time high then I will drive my Camaro as long as the roads are dry.

I have yet to ever see any drive being faulted or sued because they drove a car on summer tires when it was cold. That is scare tactic mentality and falls in line with those who say if you have to shoot someone while defending your home and if you use self defense ammo of a jacket hollowpoint that you will be sued for excessive force.

Never seen or heard of one case where those topics were brought up and used in litigation.

Be safe peeps, sorry those of you who live in the colder climates cant drive your cars. I will give a rev for you tomorrow when the Camaro gets out of the garage.

When I say winter setup, I include just cold temps so all seasons would be acceptable( just to have a rubber compound capable of withstanding the temperature). But I certainly agree location does play a role. If I lived in Texas, I wouldn't have a winter setup. Obviously they got hit too by this ridiculous cold snap, and I would hope if people had another vehicle to drive that had at least all season tires on them, they would choose to drive that vehicle and park their summer tire vehicles until the cold snap ends.

You may not have heard of it and I personally haven't either hence me wondering if it could be used against you, but if someone running summer tires here in either the cold temps or even snow loses control and hits me and causes at least moderate injuries to me or anyone in the car, I certainly would use it as a factor against that person in a lawsuit. Whether I would win or not on that basis, would have to be determined cause you can sue for anything really.

[Software Guy]

I was out in mine before I got my snows installed. Black ice, wasn't pretty. Just go find one of my threads and you can see my telephone pole hit. The road went from dry to black ice in 10 feet. I was one of 60 accidents that day.

[ecko04]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Even if one is going to try and do it all on craigslist or something like that, the chances of putting together a package for only $600 are slim to not-going-to-happen, I agree that it's a good investment, but I disagree that your experience should be used to explain how 99% of people would be able to do this.

You are specifically implying here that people can duplicate your find:

I find this to be highly unrealistic.

You're still missing the point, which is for those who are using cost as an excuse to not even bother looking around for a winter setup and thus justifying their use of stock summer rubber in winter conditions, you don't have to break the bank for a winter setup.

There are a fair number of owners who don't know that they can run a smaller tire/wheel setup, than the factory setup, to accommodate winter wheels and tires and therefore save a chunk of change and not risk it, depending on their climate, with their summer wheels and tires. Whether my exact setup and cost can be duplicated is up for debate, but that should not preclude one from looking.

I don't deny that I tend to find good deals, but that's a byproduct of my refusal to overpay and my willingness to sometimes make a trip. Keep in mind you're talking to a guy who flew from DC to IA to pickup a car and drove 14.5 hrs back to DC to save $8-10K on a car. The $500 total, for a flight, 2 overnight hotel stays and fuel, were well worth the savings even after I factor in my typical billable rate.

[KenH.]

I'm running firehawks this winter in NC ... last year I ran the goodyears. For a summer tire the firehawks stick to the road pretty well. The goodyears were like a pig on roller skates but the traction control reigned it in well enough for me to be comfortable with them.

Any time you have snow on the ground though forget it. The roads were bare and I wanted to fill the tank and couldn't even pull out of my garage with the driveway only having about a 3 degree incline.