[13vertss]

Are we sure the 1le has ps4? looks similar to the GT500 tread. Back tires on the 1le sure look cooked tho.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Here is the thing. RP said the tires were already worn pretty badly. So they didn't bring it there, get a wicked run around the track, then run it on the quarter mile, and then say it had badly worn tires. It had badly worn tires from the very start. Does anyone truly believe that you could drive a car this heavy and with this much HP around a track safely if the tires were THAT badly worn? That is not only irresponsible but extremely dangerous. That is why I am having trouble believing those statements. AM I to believe that RP took that car out on the track in such an unsafe condition? And looking at it launch from a stop, if those tires were worn, there is no way it would grip well enough to beat a Hellcat. On top of not telling us exactly how worn down they were, there is just too much to question.
I posted a reply with 2 time stamps showing the Z with the stock GYs on it.

All of you non-track guys don't understand about the tires. These tires are safe until they cord (unless it's wet), so in no way were they unsafe. Also as i said the tires on the GT500 did not look worn in the photoshoot sections, but I referenced the ZLE has PS4S for the photoshoot only so not sure if they switched tires on the 500 too?
Mountain's screenshots cleared it up even more. GT500s tires look absolutely fine with plenty of life left in the photo portion and look typical for after a track day at the end. Still not dangerous because there are no cords showing.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

*puts on tin foil hat*
Maybe there's an unspoken agreement between them and Ford. If the gt500 loses you spin a reason as to why, if not we won't loan you another car lol
A little far fetched, just like sending a car on shot (are well cooked shot or just not optimal?lol) to compete against it's rivals.

Yep I said that already, the Throttle House guys had to give it a good excuse so they aren't black balled by Ford.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Something you mentioned is something I touched on but to go further...if something happened and that car went off the road, would Ford have been liable for sending it in that condition? Would TH have been liable for allowing the testing to go on with the vehicle in that condition? Would RP, being a professional and knowing better, have been liable for operating the vehicle in that condition? Would the track owner have been liable for allowing that vehicle to be run on the track in that condition? I mean, at the drag strip they will inspect your vehicle before you run. I'm not sure what would happen if I arrived on well cooked tires. Is it the same at a circuit track or do you pay for the rental and they just wave you thru?

See, these are all smart guys. I doubt anyone in this day and age would put themself in such a potentially litigative situation. So it does sound a bit far-fetched that the tires were worn. It seems like someone was told "do not make us look bad". Again I still have the utmost respect for RP. But something doesn't sit right. Ford certainly has enough money to spare a new set of tires...
At the very least it is bad journalism. I personally would have rather seen them forego all the chummy jokes and comedy for something more detailed and informative. They basically made some statements and left it at that.
I do feel that there are unspoken rules...like, if you say this or that then you'll be blacklisted...or like, you'll never work in this town again. Well maybe nothing that aggressive. But Ford could certainly pull strings and give these guys a hard time if they ever wanted to test another vehicle. These guys are upstarts so it would be easy to do that to them.

Finally an admission that you've never been on a road course! To answer your question, you are responsible for your car and your actions on the track. You even have to pay for any damage you do to the track. Dent a wall or guardrail, you get a bill. Blow oil everywhere and they use a bunch of oil dry to clean it up, you get a bill for that too.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Now that the gt500 lost, who cares about track times anyways.... I'm sure consumers should really care about the profits Ford and Chevy are making on these cars... Ford guys sure do love touting their sales numbers when performance numbers aren't cutting it lol

Yep, we once again see there last line of defense. SALES! The sales plays into the better coupe vs better performance car topic.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Agree on the over played nature of the tires. I don't think they were shot or they wouldn't have been used.
Not sure how true it is but Lethal camaro put out a video saying the zle's owner claimed the front Michelins he had were changed to new oem's but the rear tires had over 20k miles on them, many of which are hooning around. Idk about that but an important detail if close to true along with the alignment.

G3Rs wouldn't last 20k old lady driven highway miles on a Miata, so lethal and the owner are full of it or someone misquoted someone.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Basically the GT500 lost. Again. And to a significantly cheaper significantly underpowered car. Again. In more than one area. Again.
It hasn't beaten any of the Supercars it was supposed to "kill". The Ferrari destroyed it. The GT3 beat it. The C8 Base and Z51 beat it in the quarter mile. The ZL1 beat it in the quarter mile based on time and distance. The RE beat it in a roll race. The ZLE beat it around a track. The old ZL1 time was faster than it around a track. I swear it has more losses than wins. They won't put it up against a RWD FE American car with similar HP...ZR1...because it will lose at everything. They won't put it up against a C8 Z06 because it will lose at everything. And when the C8 GS/Z06/ZR1 shows up they are not gonna match it to those either. The only car it has managed to beat at everything is, surprise surprise, the GT350R...which is more expensive than the Base GT500 if that makes any damn sense. And I'd bet the R will beat the Base GT500 around some tracks. So what exactly was this car built for?
BTW, where is TreedYou and Bradmo?

Agree with all of this. It was built for, wait for it.... sales haha oh and extreme price gouging by your local friendly Ford dealer

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The crown jewel of a generation plagued by mistake after mistake. Ford didn't take the 6th Gen Camaro seriously until it was too late.
I honestly think Ford did the best they could here. I'm not defending them by any means but this was the best they could do. My opinion here is that they spent too much time and money on a FPC engine that just didnt work out well.
They have struggled to build a competent chassis incorporating IRS and lower trim Camaros are giving the Mustang all it can handle and then some. The Camaro V6 1LE annihilated the GT PP1. The SLE is so close to the 350 Ford won't even allow a comparison. They have had to go back and refresh the 5.0 to compete with the SS and develop a PP2 (on personal time) to compete with the SLE. All of that costing valuable time and money.
And now this. The ZL1 and ZLE are beating the 500 at everything but roll racing.
Given the chassis disadvantage and everything else, Ford did the best they could. In any other generation this car would be a clear winner.

Agreed, poor Ford is always trying to play catch up and now they may have caught up, but are still losing. When you factor in price it's a big loss.

Originally Posted by oldman

I'll comment on the drag run, if I may, I will note that even the SS is traction limited stock, all this fancy stuff including some really sticky tires is netting less than 1/2 second on a non-prep surface vs the standard NA auto pony car. Really it is near enough to be a driver's race all the way around. I would like to see GM have a NA drag pack with bigger stickier rubber out back for the guys that don't autox or roadrace, but want a decent 60 launch, add in an optimized launch control with normal pavement setting.
Secondly, if they know this launch control is sloppy on the launch, then why did they not inform the guy and either he needs to launch sooner or turn the launch control off. How can this be a legitimate test if the test driver does not even know the nuance of the car:
Lastly, IMO, the tires were fine from Ford they were played with before the road race, and after all their initial impresion lap(s) and the hot laps they were not as good. The race alignment also work on the wear issue. Sorry if the car's rubber is so sticky that 1/2 day of fooling around waste them,then it really is a race car (production yes), should not be compared to a streetcar. Same way I feel about Demon times with the optional drag radial, really does it matter if it was factory? It is not a street tire. Just my .02.

Yes even the SS will allow for inconsistent launches and 1/4 times because it is a high hp rwd car. You are an experienced drag racer from what i can tell, but some in this thread think all Chevys run within a tenth every time down the strip. We know that's not true as like you are alluding to, a launch can be easily blown in even an SS.
Many people would love if GM would make a 1/4 mile car like the Dodge 1320. I think it would help the sales, but i think the current sales are what is holding GM back from making more variants like that.
Throttle House did say the track test was run in the morning before the rest of the test so the tires were the most fresh for the track.
On the Demon and 1320s factory DRs, yes they are stock, but I think you can't compare another car's times against them unless they are also on DRs.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But that's just it, RP was the one who said the tires were "well cooked". So I will concede that maybe they were in the range where they're safe to drive aggressively on but are not gonna give the best performance. I automatically took it that he was saying the tires were bald or something. My mistake. That being the said I still don't think it was a fair statement to make without any info on how "well cooked" they actually were. I still feel like it was a cheap way for Ford to get out of losing. No other car arrived on tires in that condition except for the GT500. Suspicious.

I think Martin later on hits on the head. The tires were still good enough to track and drive on, but seems that Cup2s are hero tires based on some comments here and in the video. When new, warm them up a bit and get after it right away because that will give you your best time.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

*puts on tin foil hat*

Maybe there's an unspoken agreement between them and Ford. If the gt500 loses you spin a reason as to why, if not we won't loan you another car lol

A little far fetched, just like sending a car on shot (are well cooked shot or just not optimal?lol) to compete against it's rivals.

Eh, even it won by tenths or a second theres still that massive price gap. So I don't think it was a conspiracy theory. If anything this twister orange CFTP car has been making the rounds. I think it was the same car in the edmunds video. Others mention that throttle house is realatively new, so maybe Ford just cheaped out and sent the car right from the edmunds test to them thinking they wouldn't have the resources to really put it through a test like this.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

. It was based on who could get from point A to point B the fastest. Remember how your buddy GSJ, before he got himself kicked outta here, kept insisting that on the streets the GT500 was gonna beat the ZL1? Well that was what that test was trying to replicate...exactly what would happen on the street. And the GT500 got beat. They raced again off the track but on what looked to be a service road of some sort. It looked like an abandoned street next to a highway. They raced both cars and the GT500 STILL lost.

Yep. This was a straight up race to the finish line. GT500 lost.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In some aspects I think the tire thing is being overplayed. On the other hand, I think this may be saying some things about Cup 2 tires. Listen to what Randy says on the video. He says the tires are cooked. Yet he still drove on them, so I doubt “cooked” translates to “bald” or “unsafe”. Either of those two conditions and we’d have no video because he would not have driven it. He goes on to say that Cup 2 tires get their best times when they are brand new, after a couple warm up laps, then they trail off. I took this to mean that he knew he wasn’t gonna get the best time he could from the GT500 because the tires, though still safe were beyond the narrow band where they would deliver optimal performance.

So what does all this mean? It seems to me to mean that unless a CFTP is running on hours old Cup 2s, it’s a drivers race with a ZLE. Most likely, the mass on the CFTP accelerates the wear on Cup 2s, so again, the CFTP would be an absolute beast on fresh Cup 2s and then substantially slower after only a few laps. Think about the PP2 situation. Track star for a couple laps, until the lack of sufficient coolers kicks in. Now the CFTP seems to be setting up as a car with awesome cooling capability, but with short-lived tires.

What he said ^

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It hasn't beaten any of the Supercars it was supposed to "kill". The Ferrari destroyed it. The GT3 beat it. The C8 Base and Z51 beat it in the quarter mile. The ZL1 beat it in the quarter mile based on time and distance. The RE beat it in a roll race. The ZLE beat it around a track. The old ZL1 time was faster than it around a track. I swear it has more losses than wins. They won't put it up against a RWD FE American car with similar HP...ZR1...because it will lose at everything. They won't put it up against a C8 Z06 because it will lose at everything. And when the C8 GS/Z06/ZR1 shows up they are not gonna match it to those either. The only car it has managed to beat at everything is, surprise surprise, the GT350R...which is more expensive than the Base GT500 if that makes any damn sense. And I'd bet the R will beat the Base GT500 around some tracks. So what exactly was this car built for?

You're really sticking to that MT supercar killer comment huh lol.


Well now you are just picking and choosing to make the 500 look bad (which it has done on it's own lol) while ignoring the few times it came out on top

Both variants beat the C8 time around VIR, it has beaten the RE in 3 different drag tests(icons, Throttle House, Edmunds), beat the ZLE in the 1/4 in the C&D test, Edmunds test.

And I know you don't care which car they choose in the end because your a numbers guy. But 2 out of 3 of the big comparisons have all chosen the GT500 as overall winner lol So it has won at something hahaha.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The crown jewel of a generation plagued by mistake after mistake. Ford didn't take the 6th Gen Camaro seriously until it was too late.

I honestly think Ford did the best they could here. I'm not defending them by any means but this was the best they could do. My opinion here is that they spent too much time and money on a FPC engine that just didnt work out well.

They have struggled to build a competent chassis incorporating IRS and lower trim Camaros are giving the Mustang all it can handle and then some. The Camaro V6 1LE annihilated the GT PP1. The SLE is so close to the 350 Ford won't even allow a comparison. They have had to go back and refresh the 5.0 to compete with the SS and develop a PP2 (on personal time) to compete with the SLE. All of that costing valuable time and money.

And now this. The ZL1 and ZLE are beating the 500 at everything but roll racing.

Given the chassis disadvantage and everything else, Ford did the best they could. In any other generation this car would be a clear winner.

That's a pretty fair stance

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In the video he states what tires the car comes with. Not what tires they are on. However the rears are the stock tires.

Right, but why would you point out a detail about a car you are reviewing and functionally comparing to another, when the car that will be used doesn’t have that detail on it and you don’t point that out?

Again, I like TH, but this review is really falling completely apart... Really just a cool video. You can’t actually come to any good conclusion.

It’s not fair to the Ford nor Chevy.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Pretty strong words from a past GT350 owner

Maybe a little strong because of all of the chest thumping which is true: it is sickening also, but true words none the less. I loved the GT350 and the sounds it made but it is pale in comparison to a ZL1. Ford did NOT make another engine, they put a blower on it. A little bit bigger brakes because it is a big fatso. OF course cooling, etc etc. Nothing earth shattering. Nothing revolutionary. Just evolution on the same chassis since 2015, nothing really changed.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Are we sure the 1le has ps4? looks similar to the GT500 tread. Back tires on the 1le sure look cooked tho.

Watch the video closely. Look at the pictures posted. Check pictures of “Michelin Pilot Sport 4S”, “Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2” and “Goodyear Supercar 3R.” Those 3 tires have very distinct tread designs. Judge for yourself.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Finally an admission that you've never been on a road course!

Sure I have. They're just a little faster than the ones you've been on.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Watch the video closely. Look at the pictures posted. Check pictures of “Michelin Pilot Sport 4S”, “Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2” and “Goodyear Supercar 3R.” Those 3 tires have very distinct tread designs. Judge for yourself.

I was looking at the lettering on the 1le, and it looked like it says cup2

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

All of you non-track guys don't understand about the tires. These tires are safe until they cord (unless it's wet), so in no way were they unsafe. Also as i said the tires on the GT500 did not look worn in the photoshoot sections, but I referenced the ZLE has PS4S for the photoshoot only so not sure if they switched tires on the 500 too?
Mountain's screenshots cleared it up even more. GT500s tires look absolutely fine with plenty of life left in the photo portion and look typical for after a track day at the end. Still not dangerous because there are no cords showing.


Yep I said that already, the Throttle House guys had to give it a good excuse so they aren't black balled by Ford.


Finally an admission that you've never been on a road course! To answer your question, you are responsible for your car and your actions on the track. You even have to pay for any damage you do to the track. Dent a wall or guardrail, you get a bill. Blow oil everywhere and they use a bunch of oil dry to clean it up, you get a bill for that too.


Yep, we once again see there last line of defense. SALES! The sales plays into the better coupe vs better performance car topic.


G3Rs wouldn't last 20k old lady driven highway miles on a Miata, so lethal and the owner are full of it or someone misquoted someone.


Agree with all of this. It was built for, wait for it.... sales haha oh and extreme price gouging by your local friendly Ford dealer


Agreed, poor Ford is always trying to play catch up and now they may have caught up, but are still losing. When you factor in price it's a big loss.


Yes even the SS will allow for inconsistent launches and 1/4 times because it is a high hp rwd car. You are an experienced drag racer from what i can tell, but some in this thread think all Chevys run within a tenth every time down the strip. We know that's not true as like you are alluding to, a launch can be easily blown in even an SS.
Many people would love if GM would make a 1/4 mile car like the Dodge 1320. I think it would help the sales, but i think the current sales are what is holding GM back from making more variants like that.
Throttle House did say the track test was run in the morning before the rest of the test so the tires were the most fresh for the track.
On the Demon and 1320s factory DRs, yes they are stock, but I think you can't compare another car's times against them unless they are also on DRs.

I figured something was lost in translation with the 20k but apparently they weren't new lol.... I put 21k on mine comfortably with a lot of hooning around but I have the regular g3s not g3r's.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Are we sure the 1le has ps4? looks similar to the GT500 tread. Back tires on the 1le sure look cooked tho.

As others have pointed out, the lettering says they are but they also look like ps4s pretty clearly imo if you're familiar with both... the treading on the outside is a lot more prevalent then on the psc2's.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Maybe a little strong because of all of the chest thumping which is true: it is sickening also, but true words none the less. I loved the GT350 and the sounds it made but it is pale in comparison to a ZL1. Ford did NOT make another engine, they put a blower on it. A little bit bigger brakes because it is a big fatso. OF course cooling, etc etc. Nothing earth shattering. Nothing revolutionary. Just evolution on the same chassis since 2015, nothing really changed.

Agreed, just nice to see someone with ownership experience point it out

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Sure I have. They're just a little faster than the ones you've been on.

Just so you know, road course means a track. Not a public street. Please enlighten us as to what track has a long enough straight to hit 180 in a ZL1.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Just so you know, road course means a track. Not a public street. Please enlighten us as to what track has a long enough straight to hit 180 in a ZL1.

Road America.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Road America.

Even a Vette ZR1 maxes out around 170 at RA.