[olrocker]

On manual transmissions, it requires you to press both the brake pedal and clutch to start the car. Until I bought this car every manual has only required you to press the clutch - for obvious reasons and I understand them. No problem there.

My problem is requiring the brake pedal as well. So I’ve traced the clutch and brake pedal switch circuits and unfortunately they both go to the BCM, and the BCM actually controls the brake lamp illumination as well. The brake pedal does not have two switches, only one.

I’ve thought of every way to bypass the brake switch going through the BCM but still operating the brake lights properly but there isn’t.

The only way to fix this is go into the software programming and remove or turn off the BCM looking for the brake input during the starting sequence.

Anyone with extensive working knowledge of GM’s LAN system have any ideas? I hate having to press the brake AND clutch - if by chance you stall in traffic with the old way you can punch the clutch and restart without bringing the car to a complete stop. You have momentum which the guy behind you won’t notice if you do it right.

But This way someone is almost likely to rear end you!!!! Serious fail!!

GM’s engineers had a massive brain fart when they put this “safety net” into the car.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by olrocker

On manual transmissions, it requires you to press both the brake pedal and clutch to start the car. Until I bought this car every manual has only required you to press the clutch - for obvious reasons and I understand them. No problem there.

My problem is requiring the brake pedal as well. So I’ve traced the clutch and brake pedal switch circuits and unfortunately they both go to the BCM, and the BCM actually controls the brake lamp illumination as well. The brake pedal does not have two switches, only one.

I’ve thought of every way to bypass the brake switch going through the BCM but still operating the brake lights properly but there isn’t.

The only way to fix this is go into the software programming and remove or turn off the BCM looking for the brake input during the starting sequence.

Anyone with extensive working knowledge of GM’s LAN system have any ideas? I hate having to press the brake AND clutch - if by chance you stall in traffic with the old way you can punch the clutch and restart without bringing the car to a complete stop. You have momentum which the guy behind you won’t notice if you do it right.

But This way someone is almost likely to rear end you!!!! Serious fail!!

GM’s engineers had a massive brain fart when they put this “safety net” into the car.

I'd contact WAMS, but chances are no one is allowed near the software layer where this is set up. GM are paranoid about lawsuits claiming they allowed "hackers" into their system.

This "safety" feature was most likely mandated by the same flappers in middle management who forced developers to make us hold down seat memory buttons for the seats to move, or to disable the remote window up feature.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I'd contact WAMS, but chances are no one is allowed near the software layer where this is set up. GM are paranoid about lawsuits claiming they allowed "hackers" into their system.

This "safety" feature was most likely mandated by the same flappers in middle management who forced developers to make us hold down seat memory buttons for the seats to move, or to disable the remote window up feature.

Thanks I’ll give that a try. I know it’s probably to no avail.

Those flappers obviously never owned a manual transmission as an everyday driving car. I’ve been driving nothing but stick for 25 years but occasionally I stall in traffic. Not often, but it happens. To everyone. And anyone who owns a stick for everyday driving and tells you they haven’t stalled once since they began to learn, even if they’ve been driving stick for 40 years, is lying.

Having driven stick that long, when I do stall, I know what happens before it happens so I almost instinctively punch the clutch without touching the brake, to restart and the car and it has a little forward momentum, about 2-3 mph. Traffic behind you will start to roll. You can start it on that roll then you’re off with no problems.

But when I have to slam on the brake, and they don’t know why nor should they be expected to, I cringe!!!!!!!

It’s a quirk the engineers never thought of in R&D when they were testing the car I can guarantee you.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Thanks I’ll give that a try. I know it’s probably to no avail.

Those flappers obviously never owned a manual transmission as an everyday driving car. I’ve been driving nothing but stick for 25 years but occasionally I stall in traffic. Not often, but it happens. To everyone. And anyone who owns a stick for everyday driving and tells you they haven’t stalled once since they began to learn, even if they’ve been driving stick for 40 years, is lying.

Having driven stick that long, when I do stall, I know what happens before it happens so I almost instinctively punch the clutch without touching the brake, to restart and the car and it has a little forward momentum, about 2-3 mph. Traffic behind you will start to roll. You can start it on that roll then you’re off with no problems.

But when I have to slam on the brake, and they don’t know why nor should they be expected to, I cringe!!!!!!!

It’s a quirk the engineers never thought of in R&D when they were testing the car I can guarantee you.

I hear you loud and clear, this safety feature GM added to the car is actually a hazard, too. There are a few things I'd love to change in the car's software, too, but once I looked at the GM SDK (the software development kit they offer), all you could do was write another useless radio or media player or slideshow or mapping app that nobody cares about. No access to anything real or interesting, like powertrain or DIC.

This is where WAMS may come through for you, because they can change actual BCM module code, unlock features or port them from another model/trim, I'm just not sure if they can modify these safety aspects.

Btw although I have the A8 in my Camaro, I also stalled the stick diesel beater I had to borrow the other day, thinking it'd have more torque off the line. Learned it didn't, and gave it a bit more gas from then on, probably happens to everyone once in a while.

[knighti2]

Those flappers obviously never owned a manual transmission as an everyday driving car. I’ve been driving nothing but stick for 25 years but occasionally I stall in traffic. Not often, but it happens. To everyone. And anyone who owns a stick for everyday driving and tells you they haven’t stalled once since they began to learn, even if they’ve been driving stick for 40 years, is lying.

I taught myself stick when I was 21 (about 30+ years ago) and having been driving on and off ever since. I have been daily on one for the last 2 years. Rarely, but every now and then for any number of dumb reasons I stall the car.
Definitely going to happen.

[Kamero6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

On manual transmissions, it requires you to press both the brake pedal and clutch to start the car. Until I bought this car every manual has only required you to press the clutch - for obvious reasons and I understand them. No problem there.

My problem is requiring the brake pedal as well. So I’ve traced the clutch and brake pedal switch circuits and unfortunately they both go to the BCM, and the BCM actually controls the brake lamp illumination as well. The brake pedal does not have two switches, only one.

I’ve thought of every way to bypass the brake switch going through the BCM but still operating the brake lights properly but there isn’t.

The only way to fix this is go into the software programming and remove or turn off the BCM looking for the brake input during the starting sequence.

Anyone with extensive working knowledge of GM’s LAN system have any ideas? I hate having to press the brake AND clutch - if by chance you stall in traffic with the old way you can punch the clutch and restart without bringing the car to a complete stop. You have momentum which the guy behind you won’t notice if you do it right.

But This way someone is almost likely to rear end you!!!! Serious fail!!

GM’s engineers had a massive brain fart when they put this “safety net” into the car.

If jamming up the brake pedal switch manually to test doesn't allow you to start the car, it most probably runs off the hydraulic brake pressure sensor. Having a treshold of minumum pressure to allow the start cycle.

The other problem is the brake light, it can run of hyd pressure or switch. If it is the switch, It would be really hard to bypass it, since you require a lot of other conditions to modify this logic.

To reverse engineer this you need to do some testing. Im sure if you're doing over 20 or 30 mph it should bypass itself.

[Kamero6]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I hear you loud and clear, this safety feature GM added to the car is actually a hazard, too. There are a few things I'd love to change in the car's software, too, but once I looked at the GM SDK (the software development kit they offer), all you could do was write another useless radio or media player or slideshow or mapping app that nobody cares about. No access to anything real or interesting, like powertrain or DIC.

This is where WAMS may come through for you, because they can change actual BCM module code, unlock features or port them from another model/trim, I'm just not sure if they can modify these safety aspects.

Btw although I have the A8 in my Camaro, I also stalled the stick diesel beater I had to borrow the other day, thinking it'd have more torque off the line. Learned it didn't, and gave it a bit more gas from then on, probably happens to everyone once in a while.

I've been playing with that but I haven't been able to actually dowload or deploy the app to the car? Have you done that? It is supposed to be deployed by them using the download app feature. I think that never happened.
I was wondering if enabling developer mode and a usb stick will work for the install.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Kamero6

I've been playing with that but I haven't been able to actually dowload or deploy the app to the car? Have you done that? It is supposed to be deployed by them using the download app feature. I think that never happened.
I was wondering if enabling developer mode and a usb stick will work for the install.

No, I tried things with an emulator and didn't try to deploy to the car. The SDK just didn't look promising.

[LT4Greg]

I have been driving manuals for 45 years and sure I have stalled them too. Currently all 3 of my vehicles are manuals which I have had instances of stalling in traffic including my ZL1 until I got adjusted to the clutch but never would I think of reverse engineering it like you stated. Of course it’s your Camaro to do what you want to do to it. Good luck.��

[Standard]

I'm risking a negative contribution to the conversation here - and it's not O.T. to the topic of software, and will not be driving for a while to test again myself; but . . . have you tested stalling while still moving? I'll try next time I'm driving.

Stall-stop-brake - fine. I vaguely recall doing one of those stalls where you're still kind of rolling and starting with just the clutch and button. I may be remembering it wrong, maybe I nervously touched or hit the brake; but maybe I didn't.

I'm just asking - or suggesting - is the brake requirement just there for a fully stopped car?

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Standard

I'm risking a negative contribution to the conversation here - and it's not O.T. to the topic of software, and will not be driving for a while to test again myself; but . . . have you tested stalling while still moving? I'll try next time I'm driving.

Stall-stop-brake - fine. I vaguely recall doing one of those stalls where you're still kind of rolling and starting with just the clutch and button. I may be remembering it wrong, maybe I nervously touched or hit the brake; but maybe I didn't.

I'm just asking - or suggesting - is the brake requirement just there for a fully stopped car?

To start the car at any time from the engine not running, you must press the clutch and brake. You will get the message “Depress Ckutch and Brake to start vehicle” in the DIC if you try to start no matter how fast the vehicle is rolling.

Trust me - I’ve tried starting with the clutch pedal down, no brake, while the car is rolling and you get the message and car will not start.

[speedyink1]

I've stalled my Camaro twice. Once when I first drove it because I was used to my old Trans Am, and again not too long ago, just something stupid at a stop sign. It happens, I've only had it a year so that's probably about average.

Thankfully neither at a point where having to also apply to brake was an issue. Now that you mention it though I could totally see that, and that does sound like a pain! It is a safety hazard I'd say. Does it start if you just apply the brake slightly? (Hopefully minimizing actual braking)

On a somewhat related note, can you "push start" these cars?

[Kamero6]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

No, I tried things with an emulator and didn't try to deploy to the car. The SDK just didn't look promising.

You barely have any info on the actual drivetrain. Theres a repo on github from a guy who integrated Torque app (using ELM327) with an android auto app he created to display gauges or whatever, but you have to do your own think.

I might work on that at some point. If i get a GMLAN sniffer you can display some cool data and maybe write some.

[Kamero6]

Originally Posted by speedyink1

I've stalled my Camaro twice. Once when I first drove it because I was used to my old Trans Am, and again not too long ago, just something stupid at a stop sign. It happens, I've only had it a year so that's probably about average.

Thankfully neither at a point where having to also apply to brake was an issue. Now that you mention it though I could totally see that, and that does sound like a pain! It is a safety hazard I'd say. Does it start if you just apply the brake slightly? (Hopefully minimizing actual braking)

On a somewhat related note, can you "push start" these cars?

I don't know about the camaro logic, but older cars (with turn key) will stop the fuel pump if no crank rotation is detected. As soon as you release the clutch and the ECU starts getting crank signal again, it will restart the fuel pumps.

Now that being said, our cars should be able to push start. It would be ridiculous that if the engine stalls in the highway doing 60, you have to stop completely and crank. Having to apply pressure on the brakes is also ridiculous.

Has anyone tried to clear a flood in the engine? Pressing the gas pedal 100% and then cranking? It would be weird to have to press all 3 pedals at the same time.