[ZLRob]

What is it supposed to be? I've been having some issues dialing in a 91mm effective Soler TB and I'm finally getting to a point where it is pretty stable but I'm only seeing 19-22 degrees at idle. Is it supposed to be higher? I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be in the 30's but I can't remember. Thanks in advance!

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

What is it supposed to be? I've been having some issues dialing in a 91mm effective Soler TB and I'm finally getting to a point where it is pretty stable but I'm only seeing 19-22 degrees at idle. Is it supposed to be higher? I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be in the 30's but I can't remember. Thanks in advance!

That’s more than I get lol…doesn’t sound bad to me.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

That’s more than I get lol…doesn’t sound bad to me.

Lol, alright brother, thank you! I should probably consult with the high octane map as well because I'm trying to get close to what it's supposed to be I just don't remember what the heck it was. VTT tuning is mad annoying.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

What is it supposed to be? I've been having some issues dialing in a 91mm effective Soler TB and I'm finally getting to a point where it is pretty stable but I'm only seeing 19-22 degrees at idle. Is it supposed to be higher? I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be in the 30's but I can't remember. Thanks in advance!

15 seconds after startup on my OEM block it had 32

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

Lol, alright brother, thank you! I should probably consult with the high octane map as well because I'm trying to get close to what it's supposed to be I just don't remember what the heck it was. VTT tuning is mad annoying.

What does your commanded/actual torque at idle look like?

[RobZL1]

I feel like an actual idle spark in the 15-20 range is ideal, definitely not in the 30s in my opinion.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by JSH

15 seconds after startup on my OEM block it had 32

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

What does your commanded/actual torque at idle look like?

Originally Posted by RobZL1

I feel like an actual idle spark in the 15-20 range is ideal, definitely not in the 30s in my opinion.

Very much appreciate the input gents!

I haven't looked at commanded/ actual with super deep interest, but that is something I'll have to look at here in a second. I finally got my torque management to stop jerking me around at part throttles and got several issues patched up that required utilizing user defined values. Semi pricey spend to be able to define and access those values but it was totally worth it. Car drives awesome now but I feel like DD tables could use some mild clean up in the part throttle sections. Especially at zero pedal.

Joshinator: I just realized I'm not logging immediate engine TQ command, but I have been logging predicted engine TQ command so I'm going to have to take a log of that and get back to you. I thought I was but there are so many freaking PIDS available to log so it's easy to miss one.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

Very much appreciate the input gents!

I haven't looked at commanded/ actual with super deep interest, but that is something I'll have to look at here in a second. I finally got my torque management to stop jerking me around at part throttles and got several issues patched up that required utilizing user defined values. Semi pricey spend to be able to define and access those values but it was totally worth it. Car drives awesome now but I feel like DD tables could use some mild clean up in the part throttle sections. Especially at zero pedal.

Joshinator: I just realized I'm not logging immediate engine TQ command, but I have been logging predicted engine TQ command so I'm going to have to take a log of that and get back to you. I thought I was but there are so many freaking PIDS available to log so it's easy to miss one.

Maybe KingLT1 or Megahurtz will chime in too…they do this way more often.

[radz28]

What does your MAF error show at around those cells in the curve? How much TMA do you show in the Scanner at idle? I've heard some say you want to see some TMA - maybe 5-10* so there is still room for it to control timing. You definitely don't want negative timing, or you'll be burning up cats'. Part of it could be in your Virtual Torque. A higher flowing TB could be indicating too much airflow to the ECM, and it could be pulling timing as a result. Making adjustments, at commanded timing, at that cam angle, could help with this. I'd log and look at ZERO PEDAL TQ, too, and make adjustments from there, if necessary. It should be close to ZERO. I'd, first, make sure the airflow model is correct.

JMHO.

[KingLT1]

Your idle timing should be in the 10-20 degree range, but you want your zero pedal torque around 0 at idle.

[LiqTenExp]

zero pedal torque at idle needs to be positive, recommend 0 to 10°, i usually run it around 5°

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by radz28

What does your MAF error show at around those cells in the curve? How much TMA do you show in the Scanner at idle? I've heard some say you want to see some TMA - maybe 5-10* so there is still room for it to control timing. You definitely don't want negative timing, or you'll be burning up cats'. Part of it could be in your Virtual Torque. A higher flowing TB could be indicating too much airflow to the ECM, and it could be pulling timing as a result. Making adjustments, at commanded timing, at that cam angle, could help with this. I'd log and look at ZERO PEDAL TQ, too, and make adjustments from there, if necessary. It should be close to ZERO. I'd, first, make sure the airflow model is correct.

JMHO.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Your idle timing should be in the 10-20 degree range, but you want your zero pedal torque around 0 at idle.

Originally Posted by LiqTenExp

zero pedal torque at idle needs to be positive, recommend 0 to 10°, i usually run it around 5°

I am seeing around -6 to -12 at idle. All this virtual torque stuff is mind melting just to restore proper drivability. Maybe the Soler TB was a bad idea. I do think that my airflow model has been off for a while though, definitely even before I put it on. I think this just sort of exacerbated an issue that was already there.

[LiqTenExp]

When i see something like negative timing at idle I would probably get fueling ok and then go look at zero pedal torque as compared to delivered engine torque. If you see negative timing your engine torque is likely higher than your zero pedal engine torque. Go look at virtual torque tables at the RPM/timing°/airmass and MAP values and massage up that part of the two tables equally till it is closer to the engine torque value. This will stop causing it to pull timing. You should land somewhere between 0 to 15° positive.

This video is a good example of how to do this:

You may also want to look at your \\engine\airflow\electronic throttle tab and confirm you have changes the max area for the larger TB.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

I am seeing around -6 to -12 at idle. All this virtual torque stuff is mind melting just to restore proper drivability. Maybe the Soler TB was a bad idea. I do think that my airflow model has been off for a while though, definitely even before I put it on. I think this just sort of exacerbated an issue that was already there.

Easy solution is to get rid of the soler throttle body and go with a stock LT5. Not the first time I have seen this happen with those...and that was after swapping a NW 103 that was tuned for a Soler 107. Made timing go so far negative that I didn't even want to attempt to correct it in the VTT. But if you want to try and make it work, you need to go into the VTT, uncheck the boxes that applies changes to all, and remove torque in the idle region .20-.30 airmass/ 4-800rpm area and interpolate around that spot for the -10, 0, 10 degree tables. I would remove 20ft lbs at a time until timing gets around 10-15 degrees. If you pull too much torque it will start to act funky. Honestly anything above +5 degrees with a 0-15 zero pedal torque is probably fine.