[airtroop01]

Okay here’s the results of my Phase 2.
The hard work was done by JRG Motorsports and Newtech Performance in Hayward. Toohighpsi was a valuable resource in figuring stuff out. And laynlo15 from this board was a great sounding board with what I wanted to do here.

Recap:
I installed a 2650 Magnuson on my stock V and with a 103mm TB, 103mm snout, and a Borla catback my car managed to pull 678rwhp on the Dynojet through all 4 cats and 91-octane.

Mods:
We installed the following…
Toohighpsi LP 2650 injection plates
60# injectors
MAF Fusion controller
Cordes low side fuel pump kit
DSX e85 sensor
100% e85 at the pump

Results:
808 rwhp on the Dynojet with 100% e85
Stock headers
Stock 4 cats
Stock cam
Stock heads
No methanol

Who says that you need headers to make power?
Okay… I’m not naïve about it and I’m sure that headers and a pulley change would have this quickly into 900’s. But, I think it’s safe to say the limit for the stock parts is much further than most people believe.

Edit: Adding the info from Mike on this:

Parts list

Toohighpsi list:

Vindicator 2 LT1/LT4 "LP" Port Plate System for Magnuson TVS2650

Genuine SIEMENS 60lb/hr US CAR Fuel Injector x8

Injector wiring harness - USCAR x2

MAF Fusion auxiliary injector controller

Instructions and links from Mike:

Here's what I used on our Camaro (links for amazon):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1 to connect to the stock fuel line

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1 2 ea to connect to the flex fuel sensor

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1 to connect to the HP fuel pump

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JF93GG6...2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1 This is the fuel line kit that we used

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1 get 3ea more 90-degree hose ends

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...3?ie=UTF8&th=1 one of these tees for the front passenger side fuel rail

Routing directions:

For the Camaro we feed both fuel rails from the front (tee above on the passenger's side fuel rail), then at teh back they tee together with the flex fuel sensor and then feed the high-pressure fuel pump. You want the fuel to travel through the rails first, then the flex fuel sensor, then the high-pressure pump.

[Sickspeedkuwait]

Very impressive!

Thanks for sharing

[Rodslnger]

Was gonna do the same next year! Nice results. Good info thanks.

[radz28]

D@MN!!! NICE numbers!!! This is looking like it is a nice alternative to DI-mods. Like Mike said from the beginning - the 2650 will get port.

Stock pulleys and what boost? 15-16psi (if stock/90mm)?

[airtroop01]

Originally Posted by radz28

D@MN!!! NICE numbers!!! This is looking like it is a nice alternative to DI-mods. Like Mike said from the beginning - the 2650 will get port.

Stock pulleys and what boost? 15-16psi (if stock/90mm)?

Yep still running the provided 90mm upper and stock lower.
We were seeing 15-16psi.

I agree this is much better than doing DI based mods.
It’s a must if you are running our crap 91-octane CA blend of gas.
But, if you’re going to push your stock internals a little bit, best to make it safe.

I’m now having to do the TCM unlock so we can get more control of the transmission.

[Evansa22]

Very cool, I think this is something quite a few people were waiting to see.
The dsx setup ties into the port rails?
Any idea of egt or cylinder temps? The ethanol probably helps

[KingLT1]

How easy was the tuning for this? Did Mike provide support on how to setup the MAF fusion? I have been considering this for a while now. Probably should of went this way instead of the XDI +30's.

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Very cool, I think this is something quite a few people were waiting to see.
The dsx setup ties into the port rails?
Any idea of egt or cylinder temps? The ethanol probably helps

Honestly as low of compression as the ZL1 is, Cylinder temps are likely not a issue on E85 even with stock exhaust choking it off some. But I get the concern...that is a good amount of power to push through those factory cat pipes. They look like straws...lol

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

How easy was the tuning for this? Did Mike provide support on how to setup the MAF fusion? I have been considering this for a while now. Probably should of went this way instead of the XDI +30's.



Honestly as low of compression as the ZL1 is, Cylinder temps are likely not a issue on E85 even with stock exhaust choking it off some. But I get the concern...that is a good amount of power to push through those factory cat pipes. They look like straws...lol

I'm curious about this too because when I asked Vengeance Racing about installing these plates and tuning, the price was absolutely ridiculous but it seems that they weren't using the MAF Fusion which I assume is a much cheaper option than the Crawford CR-Fueler/Holley Dominator Port Injection Control.

Here's what they quoted me.

THP Port Injection Plates
ID1050xds Fuel Injectors
Crawford CR-Fueler/Holley Dominator Port Injection Control
Fore Innovations Triple In-Tank Fuel System
Labor, misc materials, etc.
Those items come up to about $20,000 total.

It will enable 1,000whp+, E85.

[JSH]

Very impressive stuff. My builder and tuner are also CTSV guys.

Originally Posted by airtroop01

Okay here’s the results of my Phase 2.
The hard work was done by JRG Motorsports and Newtech Performance in Hayward. Toohighpsi was a valuable resource in figuring stuff out. And laynlo15 from this board was a great sounding board with what I wanted to do here.

Recap:
I installed a 2650 Magnuson on my stock V and with a 103mm TB, 103mm snout, and a Borla catback my car managed to pull 678rwhp on the Dynojet through all 4 cats and 91-octane.

Mods:
We installed the following…
Toohighpsi LP 2650 injection plates
60# injectors
MAF Fusion controller
Cordes low side fuel pump kit
DSX e85 sensor
100% e85 at the pump

Results:
808 rwhp on the Dynojet with 100% e85
Stock headers
Stock 4 cats
Stock cam
Stock heads
No methanol

Who says that you need headers to make power?
Okay… I’m not naïve about it and I’m sure that headers and a pulley change would have this quickly into 900’s. But, I think it’s safe to say the limit for the stock parts is much further than most people believe.

[airtroop01]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

How easy was the tuning for this? Did Mike provide support on how to setup the MAF fusion? I have been considering this for a while now. Probably should of went this way instead of the XDI +30's.



Honestly as low of compression as the ZL1 is, Cylinder temps are likely not a issue on E85 even with stock exhaust choking it off some. But I get the concern...that is a good amount of power to push through those factory cat pipes. They look like straws...lol

Re: DSX aux would probably be the same… I’m not sure how their kit ties in regularly, but you need to get AN fittings for which Mike at Toohighpsi gave me a list of what he used on his son’s Camaro. I can share that here to pass the info forward. What I learned is your mileage may vary depending upon how you decide to route things and the components you have. Essentially, you want to feed the Toohighpsi rail first, loop around the front to the other rail, go to your e85 sensor and then feed the high side pump. In this way, the restriction down for the e85 sensors we are all using is at the same diameter hose as the high side feed. Also since the high side pump will be relieved by the Toohighpsi plates, it’s needs will be a lot less.

Re: egt - would be a good thing to check out; I have not gone that far yet. The guys are still working on me to go long tubes and uncork this thing. I’m not there yet. Tuning this thing they were surprised just how cool things were staying and it enabled him to do quite a bit of dyno pulls.

Re: tuning - Nick at Newtech was familiar with the Toohighpsi and Crawford setup as it’s on his own 1100+rwhp z06. Mike at Toohighpsi said that the tuning is not that bad and a good tuner will figure it out really quickly. The two of them talked for a bit and Mike provided a preliminary USB stick to start from. You do have some complexity in that you need to look at hp tuners and the maf Fusion software to dial it in. I can say one very cool thing… after WOT was dialed in… I was able to drive and Nick data logged it… you can adjust the fueling on the MAF Fusion device while the engine is running… LIVE! So, I’d step on it and I’m like there’s a flat spot there or something is bogging here and he’d say hang on a sec…. Ok, do it again. Almost like the old days of running a FAST computer in my car.

Re: MAF Fusion-
The good: It is cheap and powerful enough/good enough to get the job done - and it’s available. This has a mini USB port you interface with on your computer and it’s a set it up and forget it kinda setup. Once you get the hang of it it’s pretty slick and the way to think about it is it is not much more complex than a glorified methanol controller. When you start thinking of the tuning in that way you understand what it takes to dial the tune in.

The bad: It’s not equipped as the Holley controller which has the benefit of a wideband to help dial it in and a fancy screen to look at everything. The Crawford kit is an incredibly sorted out kit with factory connectors so you don’t have to do any more than plug it all in - but he stopped taking orders. This kit, I can say that we probably would not have figured out how to get it installed right without Mike as the MAF Fusion instructions are universal and there’s a crap ton of wires. After talking to Mike, it really wasn’t that bad at all. An example is the directions never specified an e85 sensor input. Makes sense afterwards that it needs one for a flex fuel tune… now where’s it go?

Again I will share that info on here as well to the best of my ability but, any deeper stuff you should drop Mike a line. I’m just packing up my family to go skiing for Christmas and answering stuff as I can.

[airtroop01]

Edited the main post to put the stuff from Mike at the top for future reference.

[Trochoidal]

Hey Airtroop01 congratulations on your build. This is outstanding information and a good parts list for any of us interested.

1) How much headroom did you get on the DI side because of the THP plates?

2) In your opinion, do you think my SS fueling can remain stock with just the plates, 100% E85 and 10-15psi? (I feel the answer is an easy yes!)

3) Is there a noticeable fuel transition when going into boost or is the experience as seamless as it was not using THP plates & MAF Fusion?

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by airtroop01

Re: DSX aux would probably be the same… I’m not sure how their kit ties in regularly, but you need to get AN fittings for which Mike at Toohighpsi gave me a list of what he used on his son’s Camaro. I can share that here to pass the info forward. What I learned is your mileage may vary depending upon how you decide to route things and the components you have. Essentially, you want to feed the Toohighpsi rail first, loop around the front to the other rail, go to your e85 sensor and then feed the high side pump. In this way, the restriction down for the e85 sensors we are all using is at the same diameter hose as the high side feed. Also since the high side pump will be relieved by the Toohighpsi plates, it’s needs will be a lot less.

Re: egt - would be a good thing to check out; I have not gone that far yet. The guys are still working on me to go long tubes and uncork this thing. I’m not there yet. Tuning this thing they were surprised just how cool things were staying and it enabled him to do quite a bit of dyno pulls.

Re: tuning - Nick at Newtech was familiar with the Toohighpsi and Crawford setup as it’s on his own 1100+rwhp z06. Mike at Toohighpsi said that the tuning is not that bad and a good tuner will figure it out really quickly. The two of them talked for a bit and Mike provided a preliminary USB stick to start from. You do have some complexity in that you need to look at hp tuners and the maf Fusion software to dial it in. I can say one very cool thing… after WOT was dialed in… I was able to drive and Nick data logged it… you can adjust the fueling on the MAF Fusion device while the engine is running… LIVE! So, I’d step on it and I’m like there’s a flat spot there or something is bogging here and he’d say hang on a sec…. Ok, do it again. Almost like the old days of running a FAST computer in my car.

Re: MAF Fusion-
The good: It is cheap and powerful enough/good enough to get the job done - and it’s available. This has a mini USB port you interface with on your computer and it’s a set it up and forget it kinda setup. Once you get the hang of it it’s pretty slick and the way to think about it is it is not much more complex than a glorified methanol controller. When you start thinking of the tuning in that way you understand what it takes to dial the tune in.

The bad: It’s not equipped as the Holley controller which has the benefit of a wideband to help dial it in and a fancy screen to look at everything. The Crawford kit is an incredibly sorted out kit with factory connectors so you don’t have to do any more than plug it all in - but he stopped taking orders. This kit, I can say that we probably would not have figured out how to get it installed right without Mike as the MAF Fusion instructions are universal and there’s a crap ton of wires. After talking to Mike, it really wasn’t that bad at all. An example is the directions never specified an e85 sensor input. Makes sense afterwards that it needs one for a flex fuel tune… now where’s it go?

Again I will share that info on here as well to the best of my ability but, any deeper stuff you should drop Mike a line. I’m just packing up my family to go skiing for Christmas and answering stuff as I can.

[airtroop01]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

Hey Airtroop01 congratulations on your build. This is outstanding information and a good parts list for any of us interested.

1) How much headroom did you get on the DI side because of the THP plates?

2) In your opinion, do you think my SS fueling can remain stock with just the plates, 100% E85 and 10-15psi? (I feel the answer is an easy yes!)

3) Is there a noticeable fuel transition when going into boost or is the experience as seamless as it was not using THP plates & MAF Fusion?

1. How much? I can’t answer that. Either Mike at Toohighpsi or Nick at Newtech would have to answer how much was offloaded from the DI side. I think I remember them saying that I should have enough to support 1000rwhp before needing to switch to 80# injectors. I don’t want to give inaccurate information so definitely ask the two of them for specifics.

2. You’ll need to increase the volume on the low side to support 100% e85. It requires much more fuel (and the miles per gallon drops as the smiles per gallon increases). I think I’ve heard folks getting away with a Stock car, DSX low and DSX e85 sensor, 100% e85. So it’s possible but I don’t know.

3. Ahhh something I can answer: At WOT no noticeable transition. At part throttle yes there was and we spent some time making sure that was minimized. We got pretty damn close. It idled so smooth and cruises so smooth right now. There was just not enough time to take it through the canyon roads and test it like I normally do - where part throttle response and smooth delivery is very important- as it would be on a road course. With the way it’s tuned now I have confidence in it. Nick did a great job in dialing things in for me.