SS with 2650 eldelbrock, which fueling upgrade to get first?

jamessh10 · 06-04-2021, 02:25 PM

I just bought a boat so I don't have 8k to sh$t out for full fueling upgraded system. My question is, which runs out of fuel first? I'm kind of on a budget right now, and taking my build slow. Eventually id like to have full upgraded system, maybe even in tank double pump, along with 32-38% fuel lobe cam, along with supporting mods, forged pistons, and heads. I am taking it slow trying not to be selfish so I bought my family a 60k boat to have fun on all year. (Louisiana so its always boat weather).

Which would be the first fuel upgrade to get? Will the low side run out first, hpfp, or injectors? I'm not a master car mechanic, but to me seems like low side feeds the high side, high side feed injectors. Common sense right? A shop told me to get 30 over injectors first, which makes no sense to me. If the low side cant keep up, the high will not have enough pressure the injectors need? Is this correct?

Basically I think either an in-tank upgrade or Dsx aux pump for the low side should be the first upgraded part in the fueling system. correct me if I'm wrong. I know doing a cam will help, but over here cam install is about 8k with top of the line supporting mods w/ converter. Im not trying to get crazy 800whp at the moment. id like 100+ whp added which would be nice, and im wondering if dsx aux pump with stock high side and injectors will get the job done.

Currently FBO besides IM, 454WHP and 483WTQ on E85

Help would be much appreciated,
thank you

Puddin · 06-04-2021, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamessh10

I just bought a boat so I don't have 8k to sh$t out for full fueling upgraded system. My question is, which runs out of fuel first? I'm kind of on a budget right now, and taking my build slow. Eventually id like to have full upgraded system, maybe even in tank double pump, along with 32-38% fuel lobe cam, along with supporting mods, forged pistons, and heads. I am taking it slow trying not to be selfish so I bought my family a 60k boat to have fun on all year. (Louisiana so its always boat weather).

Which would be the first fuel upgrade to get? Will the low side run out first, hpfp, or injectors? I'm not a master car mechanic, but to me seems like low side feeds the high side, high side feed injectors. Common sense right? A shop told me to get 30 over injectors first, which makes no sense to me. If the low side cant keep up, the high will not have enough pressure the injectors need? Is this correct?

Basically I think either an in-tank upgrade or Dsx aux pump for the low side should be the first upgraded part in the fueling system. correct me if I'm wrong. I know doing a cam will help, but over here cam install is about 8k with top of the line supporting mods w/ converter. Im not trying to get crazy 800whp at the moment. id like 100+ whp added which would be nice, and im wondering if dsx aux pump with stock high side and injectors will get the job done.

Currently FBO besides IM, 454WHP and 483WTQ on E85

Help would be much appreciated,
thank you

If you're going to run E85 both high side and low side will need to be addressed.

jamessh10 · 06-04-2021, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin

If you're going to run E85 both high side and low side will need to be addressed.

eventually yes, but i want to know if i should upgrade the lowside first or high side for more fuel. seems pointless to get bigbore hpfp if i still have stock lowside.
i know what ill need to run full E and im not trying to spend that much right now. i just want to know what is better to upgrade first the lowside or high

*Joshinator99* · 06-05-2021, 01:48 AM

OP: Honestly, if you have plans of E85 and upping the boost, just figure out your endgame power level now and save your money for the right fuel components. If I had thought I was going for 800+ WHP I never would have messed around with the LT4 fueling stuff. So I’d just do upgrades once if I were you. Go double/triple in tank, then either LPE, XDI, or port up front and get it done right the first time.

arpad_m · 06-05-2021, 07:46 AM

For the measly 550 whp said you wanted to attain, you don't need anything, the 2650 will deliver it even with the stock LT1 fuel system, maybe you can throw in a low side voltage booster for added safety.

However, I'd like to echo what Josh says about going in there only once and doing everything needed for what you'll likely ever want from this car. This is an LT1 and not an LT4, plus you didn't say what you want to use the car for, if it's mainly the street, I subjectively see no point in going for ultra crazy high 3 or even low 4-digit hp numbers that you can't put down anyway. The ZL1 builds I've personally seen with those numbers all had compromises, say, wacko tires, no traction control, unusable 1st to 4th gears etc. that one wants to think about first.

KingLT1 · 06-05-2021, 08:44 AM

Josh hit the nail on the head and Arpad followed up nicely.

It comes down to goals. Personally I do not recommend 93 with boost on a stock compression LT1. Can it be done yes on low boost levels but E85 or a blend of is still a much better option. It will be much less prone to knock and not need to pull as much timing at higher manifold temps. With a 93 tune you will be pulling timing above 130 MAT, with Ethanol you will be able to run full timing up to 154 degrees. You likely will never hit 154 even in the summer but 130 will likely still be a thing when its hot out.

You could do the full LT4 fuel system and run E60 with the 110mm pulley on the 2650. I bet that gets you 600-620whp.

If you want more then that then skip all the LT4 stuff look at the options Josh mentioned.

Eldi Z · 06-05-2021, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Josh hit the nail on the head and Arpad followed up nicely.

It comes down to goals. Personally I do not recommend 93 with boost on a stock compression LT1. Can it be done yes on low boost levels

With a 93 tune you will be pulling timing above 130 MAT

.

If anyone would like to go the 93 pump route ("clean", no E at all) and still boost the LT1 in its stock compression, BUT go full-blown LT4 fueling (LP + HP FP, FP/BAP + LT4 Injectors):

1.) What would be the highest recommended/possible ("safe") boost level?
2.) What kind of max WHP can be expected at such boost level?

*Joshinator99* · 06-05-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

If anyone would like to go the 93 pump route ("clean", no E at all) and still boost the LT1 in its stock compression, BUT go full-blown LT4 fueling (LP + HP FP, FP/BAP + LT4 Injectors):

1.) What would be the highest recommended/possible ("safe") boost level?
2.) What kind of max WHP can be expected at such boost level?

King knows these things off the top of his head, but I’ll say with no E or meth, you’re likely stuck in the 8-9 psi range. Probably puts you around 600-625 WHP. The stock LT1 compression is high enough where you either need more octane, or limited boost and timing.

Eldi Z · 06-06-2021, 05:32 PM

8-9 PSI sounds a little high to me on pump 93...lets get some additional input.

How much power could be made on "safer" 6-7 on 93 pump on the LT1? 560-570 ish WHP?

*Joshinator99* · 06-07-2021, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

8-9 PSI sounds a little high to me on pump 93...lets get some additional input.

How much power could be made on "safer" 6-7 on 93 pump on the LT1? 560-570 ish WHP?

Uh, I already did 8-9 pounds on pump 93 on a stock motor... Obviously ran stronger when I had access to E as well but you can still do it. A splash of Boostane would help too. 3 oz takes you from 93 to 96 octane.

At 7 psi I was 593 WHP on 93 only with a Rotofab and 95mm TB back when I first put the Whipple on.

Eldi Z · 06-07-2021, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

At 7 psi I was 593 WHP on 93 only with a Rotofab and 95mm TB back when I first put the Whipple on.

Nice

Interested to know what WHP levels can be achieved with stock LT4 (ZL1/CTS-V) blower, LT4 fueling @ 93 @ 7 PSI...

*Joshinator99* · 06-07-2021, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

Nice

Interested to know what WHP levels can be achieved with stock LT4 (ZL1/CTS-V) blower, LT4 fueling @ 93 @ 7 PSI...

My brother just did this combo for a friend that I did a start up tune for. Ended up at 550-560 WHP if memory serves.

Eldi Z · 06-09-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

My brother just did this combo for a friend that I did a start up tune for. Ended up at 550-560 WHP if memory serves.

Not bad. Is it an Auto trans or Stick?
Was that on your initial file, or after fine-tuning?
Is the tuning suite HPT or EFIL?

*Joshinator99* · 06-09-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

Not bad. Is it an Auto trans or Stick?
Was that on your initial file, or after fine-tuning?
Is the tuning suite HPT or EFIL?

Auto
After fine tuning by a real tuner lol
HPT

06-04-2021, 02:25 PM	#1
jamessh10 Drives: 2018 camaro 2SS Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Baton Rouge,LA Posts: 52	SS with 2650 eldelbrock, which fueling upgrade to get first? I just bought a boat so I don't have 8k to sh$t out for full fueling upgraded system. My question is, which runs out of fuel first? I'm kind of on a budget right now, and taking my build slow. Eventually id like to have full upgraded system, maybe even in tank double pump, along with 32-38% fuel lobe cam, along with supporting mods, forged pistons, and heads. I am taking it slow trying not to be selfish so I bought my family a 60k boat to have fun on all year. (Louisiana so its always boat weather). Which would be the first fuel upgrade to get? Will the low side run out first, hpfp, or injectors? I'm not a master car mechanic, but to me seems like low side feeds the high side, high side feed injectors. Common sense right? A shop told me to get 30 over injectors first, which makes no sense to me. If the low side cant keep up, the high will not have enough pressure the injectors need? Is this correct? Basically I think either an in-tank upgrade or Dsx aux pump for the low side should be the first upgraded part in the fueling system. correct me if I'm wrong. I know doing a cam will help, but over here cam install is about 8k with top of the line supporting mods w/ converter. Im not trying to get crazy 800whp at the moment. id like 100+ whp added which would be nice, and im wondering if dsx aux pump with stock high side and injectors will get the job done. Currently FBO besides IM, 454WHP and 483WTQ on E85 Help would be much appreciated, thank you Attached Images

06-05-2021, 01:48 AM	#4
Joshinator99 Moderator Drives: 2017 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: New Ipswich NH Posts: 6,350	OP: Honestly, if you have plans of E85 and upping the boost, just figure out your endgame power level now and save your money for the right fuel components. If I had thought I was going for 800+ WHP I never would have messed around with the LT4 fueling stuff. So I’d just do upgrades once if I were you. Go double/triple in tank, then either LPE, XDI, or port up front and get it done right the first time. __________________ 2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 3.0, Mast Black Label heads, ATI 8L90, Fore triple in-tank pumps, 112mm TB, LPE +52% injectors & BB HPFP, TooHighPSI/Katech port injection, 15” conversion 1066 WHP STD/1027 SAE, 9.10@152.5 (new times coming)

06-05-2021, 07:46 AM	#5
arpad_m Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 13,476 View My Garage	For the measly 550 whp said you wanted to attain, you don't need anything, the 2650 will deliver it even with the stock LT1 fuel system, maybe you can throw in a low side voltage booster for added safety. However, I'd like to echo what Josh says about going in there only once and doing everything needed for what you'll likely ever want from this car. This is an LT1 and not an LT4, plus you didn't say what you want to use the car for, if it's mainly the street, I subjectively see no point in going for ultra crazy high 3 or even low 4-digit hp numbers that you can't put down anyway. The ZL1 builds I've personally seen with those numbers all had compromises, say, wacko tires, no traction control, unusable 1st to 4th gears etc. that one wants to think about first. __________________ 2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6 735 rwhp \| 665 rwtq Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley \| Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers \| JRE smooth idle Terminator cam \| LT4 FS & injectors \| TSP forged pistons & rods JMS PowerMAX \| DSX flex fuel kit \| Roto-Fab CAI \| Soler 95mm LT5 TB \| 1LE wheels \| 1LE brakes \| BMR rear cradle lockout \| JRE custom tune 1100 - 1/30/18 \| 2000 - 1/31/18 3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18 3400 - 2/19/18 \| 3800 - 2/26/18 4300 - 2/27/18 \| 4B00 - 3/01/18 4200 - 3/05/18 \| 4800 - 3/14/18 5000 - 3/16/18 \| 6000 - 3/19/18

06-05-2021, 08:44 AM	#6
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 7,661	Josh hit the nail on the head and Arpad followed up nicely. It comes down to goals. Personally I do not recommend 93 with boost on a stock compression LT1. Can it be done yes on low boost levels but E85 or a blend of is still a much better option. It will be much less prone to knock and not need to pull as much timing at higher manifold temps. With a 93 tune you will be pulling timing above 130 MAT, with Ethanol you will be able to run full timing up to 154 degrees. You likely will never hit 154 even in the summer but 130 will likely still be a thing when its hot out. You could do the full LT4 fuel system and run E60 with the 110mm pulley on the 2650. I bet that gets you 600-620whp. If you want more then that then skip all the LT4 stuff look at the options Josh mentioned. __________________ 2016 NFG SS A8/Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel

06-06-2021, 05:32 PM	#9
Eldi Z Drives: 17' 1SS 1LE GBA-Black Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: TLV Posts: 883	8-9 PSI sounds a little high to me on pump 93...lets get some additional input. How much power could be made on "safer" 6-7 on 93 pump on the LT1? 560-570 ish WHP?

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