[NA18CamaroSS]

Time for a retune. Since the last time the car was tuned we added a Soler Performance 95 MM throttle body and 95MM to 87MM adapter, a ported intake manifold, a Roto Fab CAI and some New Era Performance cat delete pipes. The Camaro is louder, albeit not sure if it's faster yet.

[NYblack1le]

Do you have any problems at partial throttle? I added the same throttle body and seems as if the car pulls timing at partial throttle ever so slightly. Retune is next week.

[NA18CamaroSS]

Slight hesitation on right turns uphill. We will see how it is after tune.

[6spdhyperblue]

When do you tune and who ported the intake

[pmoore4321]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

Do you have any problems at partial throttle? I added the same throttle body and seems as if the car pulls timing at partial throttle ever so slightly. Retune is next week.

You need to change the Max Throttle Area of the the tune to "5,054"

You also might need to do a "Throttle Cleaned" to fix your timing issue at idle.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by pmoore4321

You need to change the Max Throttle Area of the the tune to "5,054"

You also might need to do a "Throttle Cleaned" to fix your timing issue at idle.

Thanks, Pmoore. Is that number for the stock 95mm? Please keep in mind that our WOT area is 8% greater than that of the stock 95mm TB.

In general, the tune should approximately follow this plot in terms of area vs. TP. relative to the stock 95 mm. That area around 30% throttle is very important to avoid surging issues. Load dyno tune or road tune is a must.

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Thanks, Pmoore. Is that number for the stock 95mm? Please keep in mind that our WOT area is 8% greater than that of the stock 95mm TB.

In general, the tune should approximately follow this plot in terms of area vs. TP. relative to the stock 95 mm. That area around 30% throttle is very important to avoid surging issues. Load dyno tune or road tune is a must.

Can you explain how you get the best gains with your products and other attachments to make the air follow the best.

I am under the belief that you must have the same size of circumference throughout from air intake tube to the intake manifold or the very least have it start bigger in circumference and end in a lower circumference in order not to have a the direction of the airflow back up.

[pmoore4321]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Thanks, Pmoore. Is that number for the stock 95mm? Please keep in mind that our WOT area is 8% greater than that of the stock 95mm TB.

In general, the tune should approximately follow this plot in terms of area vs. TP. relative to the stock 95 mm. That area around 30% throttle is very important to avoid surging issues. Load dyno tune or road tune is a must.

I just happened to switch to the 95mm TB on my truck a few days ago. If you search "5054" on the HPT forum, there will be several posts about it.

The most important thing is the "Throttle Cleaned" using the HPT scanner. User "Swap Time" on Youtube has a great video that shows the process.

https://youtu.be/Ca0HYnQ7J7g


EDIT: I see the OP is installing the Solar TB. In that case, I'm not sure what the throttle area should be.

Here's an LT5 crate engine tune if you need something for reference.

LT5_Crate_Engine.hpt

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by BlackbeastSS2

Can you explain how you get the best gains with your products and other attachments to make the air follow the best.

I am under the belief that you must have the same size of circumference throughout from air intake tube to the intake manifold or the very least have it start bigger in circumference and end in a lower circumference in order not to have a the direction of the airflow back up.

Very true, this is why going too big on the TB might backfire. We gain flow by gaining area without increasing circumference, and by increasing flow efficiency (aka discharge coefficient).

Let's make a distinction between gains at partial throttle (say under 50%) and gains at WOT or near (say above 80%).

At partial throttle. All you need to gain power is the TB, at these positions the TB sets the flow rate as it the main restriction by a good marging.

At WOT, increasing the TB size by itself doesn't add power unless the OEM made a mistake by undersizing it, but they don't make those mistakes, at least not grossly. Except perhaps for the LT4 in which we think the TB should have been a little larger along w/ the whole flow path to the SC inlet.

Anyway, at WOT, think of the TB as an allower of power rather than a producer of power. So, to answer your question, add all the air you can and increase the flow area of the whole path evenly/smoothy as you well suggested. The TB cannot be an obstacle, left alone smaller than the components upstream and downstream of it.

In this case of folks going from 87mm to 95mm, w/o porting the manifold or SC snout, if the transition is smooth ( as w/ our Adapters) the flow will find almost identical areas at the throat of the TB (5951 mm^2) and at the 87mm snout (5947 mm^2) w/o having approach issues or recirculation.

Makes sense?

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by pmoore4321

I just happened to switch to the 95mm TB on my truck a few days ago. If you search "5054" on the HPT forum, there will be several posts about it.

The most important thing is the "Throttle Cleaned" using the HPT scanner. User "Swap Time" on Youtube has a great video that shows the process.

https://youtu.be/Ca0HYnQ7J7g


EDIT: I see the OP is installing the Solar TB. In that case, I'm not sure what the throttle area should be.

Here's an LT5 crate engine tune if you need something for reference.

LT5_Crate_Engine.hpt

Good stuff, thanks Pmoore.

[NA18CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

When do you tune and who ported the intake

Tuning tomorrow. Brett @prayporting ported the intake manifold. Before and after of the throttle body opening:

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Very true, this is why going too big on the TB might backfire. We gain flow by gaining area without increasing circumference, and by increasing flow efficiency (aka discharge coefficient).

Let's make a distinction between gains at partial throttle (say under 50%) and gains at WOT or near (say above 80%).

At partial throttle. All you need to gain power is the TB, at these positions the TB sets the flow rate as it the main restriction by a good marging.

At WOT, increasing the TB size by itself doesn't add power unless the OEM made a mistake by undersizing it, but they don't make those mistakes, at least not grossly. Except perhaps for the LT4 in which we think the TB should have been a little larger along w/ the whole flow path to the SC inlet.

Anyway, at WOT, think of the TB as an allower of power rather than a producer of power. So, to answer your question, add all the air you can and increase the flow area of the whole path evenly/smoothy as you well suggested. The TB cannot be an obstacle, left alone smaller than the components upstream and downstream of it.

In this case of folks going from 87mm to 95mm, w/o porting the manifold or SC snout, if the transition is smooth ( as w/ our Adapters) the flow will find almost identical areas at the throat of the TB (5951 mm^2) and at the 87mm snout (5947 mm^2) w/o having approach issues or recirculation.

Makes sense?

As I thought and it does make sense as you explained.

Thanks for the reply.

[6spdhyperblue]

I believe with the limited plenum volume issue of the oem intake manifold quickly increases demand on the throttle body/snout flow rate as power increases

[NA18CamaroSS]

The car was re-tuned yesterday for the new mods. This car was base-lined bone stock July 31, 2019 at Superior Automotive's Dyno Jet and made 404 torque/403 WHP. Then we added a flex fuel kit and a Soler Performance throttle body and had the car tuned. The Camaro made 438 torque/434 WHP-(note it was going back into closed loop above 6,000 RPM in this dyno session-hence the power dip).
Since that dyno session in September of 2019, we added the following mods-Roto Fab CAI, Soler Performance 95 MM throttle body and Soler Performance 95 MM to 87 MM adapter, Pray Performance ported stock intake manifold, and New Era Performance cat delete pipes. Took the car to Church Automotive Testing in Wilmington, CA and had it retuned. It made 506 ft-lbs. of torque/492 WHP on the Dynapack dyno. If you are not familiar with the Dynapack, the dyno bolts directly to the hubs and eliminates the inertia of the wheel and tires, thus it reads higher than most Dyno Jets.
This morning we took the car back to Superior's Dyno Jet to see where the car is compared to where it was. The car made 468 ft-lbs of torque/464 WHP. In summary, with the modifications and the tune, the car gained 64 ft-lbs of torque and 61 WHP. About 30tq/30WHP can be attributed to switching to E85. That concludes this test. Heads/cam/headers on the drawing board for 2021.