[CDFF]

Hi guys new ZLE owner here. Just curious as to what mode guys are using for HPDE/Track Days and why. Ive always been an all off kinda guy, but have never had a car before with this level of driving aids.

Any feedback on which you like better and why would be appreciated. Also has anyone experienced considerable differences in lap times?

[kropscamaro16]

if you have a facebook join our socal 6th gen camaro group! lots of track focused zl1 1le guys in there!

[seanblurr]

No real difference in lap times personally. When I run square 18's I have to have it completely off or the system gets wonky.

If you don't ever feel the PTM engage, might as well leave it on as a fail safe.

[Blueclyde]

Originally Posted by CDFF

Hi guys new ZLE owner here. Just curious as to what mode guys are using for HPDE/Track Days and why. Ive always been an all off kinda guy, but have never had a car before with this level of driving aids.

Any feedback on which you like better and why would be appreciated. Also has anyone experienced considerable differences in lap times?

How much track experience do you have?

[CDFF]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

How much track experience do you have?

I have about 15 track days under my belt.

So what do you prefer blueclyde?

[travislambert]

I drive in Sport 1. Many people claim it's invasive compared to Race, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I honestly think it's 90% placebo effect.

I've ran approximately 50 track days in my ZL1. In that time I've ran a lot of laps in Race. I just don't see a performance benefit. Sure it sounds cool, but compare lap times and I think you'll find that the lap time difference with Sport 1 is negligible.

[CDFF]

Originally Posted by travislambert

I drive in Sport 1. Many people claim it's invasive compared to Race, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I honestly think it's 90% placebo effect.

I've ran approximately 50 track days in my ZL1. In that time I've ran a lot of laps in Race. I just don't see a performance benefit. Sure it sounds cool, but compare lap times and I think you'll find that the lap time difference with Sport 1 is negligible.

Thanks Travis. What differences did you notice between Race and Sport 1?

[cdrptrks]

I learned with everything off in my previous car and tend to do that for track and autocross events in my SS 1LE too after trying the PTM modes and feeling some interference from them even in race mode.

Given the extra 200hp you have in the ZLE some form of PTM might be more advisable depending on your comfort level with running everything off and your risk tolerance. Overall the PTM modes are very advanced and less intrusive compared to standard traction control from several years ago. I rode along on a ZL1 autocross run with cold tires and everything off and it felt like we were sliding sideways more that we were going straight! But the driver was very experienced and he found everything off generated faster Autox times.

I would like to do some back to back lap time comparison testing in the same session or at least on the same day once my times stop improving with everything off at a track. From talking to and comparing times with another SS 1LE in my HPDE run group at NOLA that didn't run with everything off, it seemed like he could carry a bit more speed through slower turns. I was specifically feeling the slip angle of the back end being reduced slightly in race mode on some corner exits compared to everything off.

I also personally found it harder to recover from slides in race mode since it can mask the feedback I am used to feeling and I'm not looking down at the dash to see the flashing light indicating that race mode is currently helping me and the back can come around faster once it stops being able to help. My only spin in this car so far after 10 days on track is the one below while in race mode (knock on wood...thankfully it was at a low speed corner exit). I have successfully recovered plenty of slides with everything off, probably averaging a few per track day of varying degrees.

Slide COTA T20 (everything off):


Slide NOLA T3 (everything off):


Power on snap oversteer NOLA T14 exit at 1:57 (everything off):


Slide Harris Hill T10 (PTM race):


Spin MSRC (PTM race):

[TrackClub]

CDFF: read my sticky above on PTM modes incl GM engineer's comments. Read the very first post in the thread as it has been updated and contains all the info.

Additional comments:
There is a significant difference between Stabilitrack and Traction Control. The latter only manages longitudinal tire over slip while accelerating to obtain best exit speed and is based on race TC calibration not unlike many pro race cars. Note the TC does not help with yaw management at all and it is up to the driver to manage any under or over steer situations (which can lead to spins). The former manages yaw levels. This means if the car starts exceeding safe angles based on steering inputs vs angle of travel, the system will intervene by applying brakes to individual wheel to lessen the yaw angle to prevent a slide.

So, up to PTM Sport 1 a driver can lean on both Stabilitrack and TC in all corner phases: entey, mid corner and exit. The car will feel a bit tighter but super fast laps are still possible if one does NOT over drive the car. The key is to drive it "neatly" vs leaning on the nannies beyond the car's limits.

With PTM Sport 2 or Race, Stabilitrack is off and only TC is present (Race having the most aggressive setting). This means it is up to the driver to manage yaw angles, particularly in the first 2 corner phases, as TC wont assist in any over driving situations. Also note, as demonstrated in the vids above, it is also very possible to spin the car on exit even with TC if much steering lock is still applied while getting too quickly on power (basic traction circle principle regarding how much grip a tire can give while both turning and accelerating).

All off will require the driver to manage both the yaw and any tire overslip on exit. Personally i am not any faster with all off vs Race. And even with Race, one has to FEEL what the car is doing F vs R grip wise and know how to correct the balance if and when necessary. But, driving in PTM Race vs all off is a bit easier, as the TC will manage any tire overslip situations, while with all off it will be up to your R foot.

15 days of track experience in total puts ya somewhere between an experienced novice and beginning intermediate. 650hp is tons of power. PTM Sport 1 would be the safest choice, still allowing for very fast laps, while providing necessary intervention if you over drove the car's limits (yet those can be exceeded too if one drives like an idiot, or lacks experience regarding feeling grip levels). Some folks stick with this setting and focus on balance and not over driving the car. This is the best setting if one wishes for some security blanket in case of an "oh shit" moment. And imo that's perfectly fine and won't really affect laptimes that much. At least until you gain more track experience and get to know the car better. Potential issue here is that a driver will be a bit disconnected from what the car is doing (and correcting on its own). It all depends how often one tracks the car, as developing skills to feel the grip and learn when and how to make corrections takes time and practice. This gets magnified at high speeds, when one has to stay *ahead* of the car's behavior to avoid such moments. If the driver cannot *anticipate* what the car may do and instead waits for it to get pear shaped, 99.9% of the time a spin wont be avoided.

But, if you're willing to creep on the limits slowely and have access to a safe venue, trying PTM Sport 1, Race and all off would be a good exercise. If they all feel the same, it would mean you are still way under the car's limit and need to creep up slowly. If you actually notice the difference between them balance wise, you should be able to pick one that suites you best. Getting a good instructor to run shotgun with you would be very helpful, as they should feel what the car is doing 100% and perhaps gauge your skill level and be able to advise you what setting to use?

Bottom line, what setting to use is a PERSONAL decision as it is your car and your a$$. Just to end this novel of a post: "fast guys" mainly run Race or all off. But some fast guys also posted uber laps in Sport 1. Why? It all comes down to a personal preference based on experience. And your choice should be based on the same criteria vs trying to copy somebody.

Best of luck and enjoy your car! Cheers!

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by CDFF

Thanks Travis. What differences did you notice between Race and Sport 1?

Not much honestly. The PTM Race does seem to give the sensation of being less invasive, especially on corner exit, but I haven't seen any meaningful difference in lap times. Actually, my personal best lap times have been in PTM Sport 1, but that's probably just a function of running in that mode more often.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying PTM Race (or all OFF) doesn't have the potential to be faster. It has just been my experience that when driving smoothly, the difference will be negligible for non-competitive events. As others have said, it's a personal preference, but I don't see the benefit that justifies the added risk.

[Alpha1BC]

I personally run in Race most of the time when I am running the stock wheels and tires. Specifically use this mode because there isn't any ESC (meaning you can yaw the car more freely without the brakes intervening to try to keep you from oversteering) and TC is tuned to the point where you still can induce oversteer via the accelerator pedal if you keep your foot planted to the floor in the corner, but still manages power pretty well if you floor it coming out of the corner. If you're comfortable with managing throttle and gently rolling into it as you exit the corner you probably won't notice much of a difference between the two. If you ramp into the pedal quickly when coming out of a corner, Race will help manage the power a little better and reduce the risk of lighting up the rear end.

However, on my 19" square setup, I prefer to use all off. The TC in race mode is tuned to hold the stock wheels and tires right at their limits, and like seanblurr mentioned it can start to get a little snappy/unpredictable when transition from TC on to off when exiting corners on-throttle if you start changing away from the stock setup.

[Osbornsm]

I have one, but i believe, fairly important comment to throw in here.


Picture a long radius turn...
I kept adding throttle until i got a correction by the traction control system.


Without this intervention, i would have spun off track at 70mph.


Moral of the story:
Leave it on unless you can afford it, or are good enough not to slide off course. lol


Just watch thine arse.

[Dixie ZL1]

Daily driver and love my car, so I track in Sport 1. No upside IMO to do anything else....

[Dixie ZL1]

Keep in mind when considering these posts
...... the SS 1LE and ZLE are completely different machines in transition to throttle and rear end light situations like acceleration in corners with elevation change. The ZL1 IS a hand full.