[MrTee12]

I have question about mechanics/dealerships and warranty work.


This morning I had my car serviced for the ever so-popular Shudder PSB.


I've been doing my research thanks to everyone here. I made my appointment online detailing exactly what I needed done 5 days ago. My car only has 7k miles on it and I wanted the fluid change asap to avoid any future mechanical issues with the transmission/torque converter.


My exact online message was

• 7,500 Service Maintenance - Tire Rotation TCC Shudder PSB 18 -NA-355- Trans Flush with new Mobil 1 Fluid Experiencing Shudder during acceleration.
• Scheduled Maintenance
• Transmission

So I arrive and the Service Rep is like...do you have an appointment? I said yes and he couldn't find me in the computer. I told him that I made an online appointment. Then he goes...oh..that's why


Then he proceeds to ask me how can I help him? Mind you this is 7:30a and I have to get to work, everything should be on the computer. I told him that I my car needed the Transmission Flush that's detailed in the Bulletin. His response was...did we call you? No, I made an appointment online. Then I proceed to inform him about the Transmission issues and Upgraded Mobil 1 fluid that everyone knows about.


He then...hesitating...takes my keys. Ugh!!


I had the car less than 1 year and I have 2 free maintenance services visits...and I feel like the customer services is blah. Is it because they aren't getting paid as much for warranty work or what?



Then when I go to pick it up, another service rep sarcastically goes, your "special fluid" was changed and everything is good to go.


You would think the service reps had to go and get their hands dirty...they aren't even working on cars.

[HCI2000SS]

Does your paperwork note that the correct fluid and flush were done?

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Were you actively experiencing the shudder?

If so did you previously take the car there for the dealership to diagnose themselves?

If no to the first, and you just hit a certain mileage and showed up with a service bulletin and a word of mouth history of other A8s having problems, replacing the fluid way early without an obvious issue should not have been done under warranty by my understanding of the process. Like any other component, you can replace it as early and often as you want, but if it's working properly and you're doing it for preventive purposes, that's on you.

If no to the second, that would at least explain their hesitation - you may have diagnosed the problem on your own, even correctly, but they're the ones who have to get GM to approve the warranty work which they've only got your opinion on the matter to base their warranty claim payment request on, instead of through their own practices. And I'm sure there are plenty of people out there trying to pull a fast one on GM with bogus warranty claims for dealerships to be wary.

[MrTee12]

Originally Posted by HCI2000SS

Does your paperwork note that the correct fluid and flush were done?

Yes. It matches the bulletin number and part number.

[MrTee12]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Were you actively experiencing the shudder?



From what I read online, yes.


If so did you previously take the car there for the dealership to diagnose themselves?



Nope.


If no to the first, and you just hit a certain mileage and showed up with a service bulletin and a word of mouth history of other A8s having problems, replacing the fluid way early without an obvious issue should not have been done under warranty by my understanding of the process. Like any other component, you can replace it as early and often as you want, but if it's working properly and you're doing it for preventive purposes, that's on you.


The updated version of the Bulletin (July2019) states that the techs no longer need to test the car to duplicate shudder issues...and they are to flush and replace the tranny fluid with the newest version Mobil1 with the Blue Label.


If no to the second, that would at least explain their hesitation - you may have diagnosed the problem on your own, even correctly, but they're the ones who have to get GM to approve the warranty work which they've only got your opinion on the matter to base their warranty claim payment request on, instead of through their own practices. And I'm sure there are plenty of people out there trying to pull a fast one on GM with bogus warranty claims for dealerships to be wary.


Ok, I see. That's why I asked I inquired about it here. I just didn't understand the "confusion" and "hesitation". You're explanation makes sense.

In my opinion, it's better to be preventative on this approach (from the customer standpoint) than to deal with the repairs down the line with changing torque converters and such. If this issue is so wide-spread/class action lawsuit and all, I think everyone on the list of affected cars needs to get their fluid ASAP with or without the shudder.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by MrTee12

In my opinion, it's better to be preventative on this approach (from the customer standpoint) than to deal with the repairs down the line with changing torque converters and such. If this issue is so wide-spread/class action lawsuit and all, I think everyone on the list of affected cars needs to get their fluid ASAP with or without the shudder.

As a car owner, yes, this makes perfect sense. Now from a dealership standpoint, every R.O. has a cost involved. The dealership has to pay the service writer, the porter, the tech, and in many cases the car wash people. It's not that the dealership really doesn't want to do it, it's more that they know it will be a p.i.a. to get GM to pay them to fix things that aren't broke.

It's not really you that they are frustrated with, it's the process involved with the manufacturer. As posted earlier, if it isn't having the issue and you want the fluid change done, in all rights, the dealership could've charged you for that. However, I imagine with all the bad press about the A8, GM is not as rigid on paying for the flush, or asking proof from the dealer that it was needed. IMHO the A8 transmission in the Camaro has probably sold more Mustangs and Challengers than anything else.

[LT4Greg]

I can understand your concerns about your A8 auto but I have known several people that requested changing the fluid and the dealership wouldn’t do it because theirs weren’t having any shudder issues. They were thinking the same as you about preventing any problems but the dealership told them they wouldn’t do the service!

[Glen e]

Many tsb’s Are issued “for complaint only”....Meaning the customer has got to complain about it, and the service advisor can verify it by inspection that it’s a failed situation. The simple reason is the car manufacturers figure if a person isn’t complaining about it, it’s not a problem , so why expend the expense to fix something that’s not broken, (in the customers mind). Not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s just the way it is…A good example is a noise/rattle in the door or cabin.. The TSB will tell you how to fix it if you’re hearing it, but doesn’t want you go looking for it if the customer is not complaining.

A Recall is obvious, it means that every car should be fixed no matter whether it’s exhibiting the issue or not.

On another note, if you do anything online and don’t get an answer back via email that you are confirmed, you don’t have an appointment. Most dealers use their business development center (Internet department) to track everything that has to do with computers, unfortunately that’s service appointments too. If you have a lousy BDC, it affects service too. Many of the younger generation thinks the email and text works at dealers, but it’s still slow going to get them online, Many staff still don’t look at that as a necessary part of the biz......

[Mick0311]

I just dropped my car off last night for warranty work. Scheduled and explained online. Apparently everything stays online and the service dept has no idea.


Getting the 1-2 hard shift fixed, replacing the not dimming rear view mirror. Tech wasn't able to replicate the groan from the rear end. I said keep it and keep trying. LOL

[MANNAXMAN]

Originally Posted by Glen e

Many tsb’s Are issued “for complaint only”....Meaning the customer has got to complain about it, and the service advisor can verify it by inspection that it’s a failed situation. The simple reason is the car manufacturers figure if a person isn’t complaining about it, it’s not a problem , so why expend the expense to fix something that’s not broken, (in the customers mind). Not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s just the way it is…A good example is a noise/rattle in the door or cabin.. The TSB will tell you how to fix it if you’re hearing it, but doesn’t want you go looking for it if the customer is not complaining.

Glen, what if the customer is complaining about an issue for which there is a TSB AND the TSB indicates no diagnosis is needed beyond the customer complaint, such as with the latest version of TSB 18-NA-355? As a consumer, what steps should be taken if the dealership insists on diagnosing the issue? And what if you have already taken a tech for a test drive and the tech confirms he feels the shudder, but the service department later tells you that the tech wasn't a transmission tech and a transmission tech needs to diagnose the issue?

[Glen e]

Originally Posted by MANNAXMAN

Glen, what if the customer is complaining about an issue for which there is a TSB AND the TSB indicates no diagnosis is needed beyond the customer complaint, such as with the latest version of TSB 18-NA-355? As a consumer, what steps should be taken if the dealership insists on diagnosing the issue? And what if you have already taken a tech for a test drive and the tech confirms he feels the shudder, but the service department later tells you that the tech wasn't a transmission tech and a transmission tech needs to diagnose the issue?

You always have the option of going to GM directly and asking them what’s going on… Why did the tech go on a drive if he wasn’t qualified to begin with? I realize you wouldn’t know, but he certainly would know…

I don’t get why they would be resistant. Gm is paying them a retail labor rate for the warranty work, sounds to me like they just don’t want to do the paperwork…

Maybe it’s time you go look for another dealer… Or a sit down with the general service manager

[MrTee12]

Thanks everyone for explaining the perspective from the Service Departments end...I didn't have full insightful before.

[MANNAXMAN]

Originally Posted by Glen e

You always have the option of going to GM directly and asking them what’s going on… Why did the tech go on a drive if he wasn’t qualified to begin with? I realize you wouldn’t know, but he certainly would know…

I don’t get why they would be resistant. Gm is paying them a retail labor rate for the warranty work, sounds to me like they just don’t want to do the paperwork…

Maybe it’s time you go look for another dealer… Or a sit down with the general service manager

I spoke with the service manager (over the phone) at the location in question and he insisted that the issue still needs to be diagnosed even though I took a tech for a test drive. I called another local dealership and spoke to a service manager and was told the issue needed to be diagnosed before they would service it. I guess I will be contacting GM directly.

[MANNAXMAN]

Originally Posted by MANNAXMAN

I spoke with the service manager (over the phone) at the location in question and he insisted that the issue still needs to be diagnosed even though I took a tech for a test drive. I called another local dealership and spoke to a service manager and was told the issue needed to be diagnosed before they would service it. I guess I will be contacting GM directly.

GM Customer Service is a joke. They sounded very similar to the dealership. They fed me lines like "The TSB is VIN specific and does not apply to your particular vehicle." and "Diagnosis of your issue requires a tear down of your car which will take at least 2 days." When I asked where does it say that it is VIN specific, the rep said "I just told you it was VIN specific". To which I replied, I know you told me, but where did you get that information from. She never gave an answer. The rep and her supervisor sounded just as ignorant on this issue as the dealership.