[artey34]

Hey guys,

Anyone out use a harness that doesn't require a cage? I am just doing HPDE and AutoX so dont need to go all out as of now. I have seen a 4 point that attaches to the rear seat belt buckle (Schroth - https://www.schrothracing.com/produc...lye-belts#1575) but dont know if there is one that people use for a Camaro. I want to keep my regular belts for daily use, but the harness for a little more hold on track days.

Thanks!

[kropscamaro16]

brey krause makes a harness bar and so does studio rsr that should both work with the oem seats

[artey34]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

brey krause makes a harness bar and so does studio rsr that should both work with the oem seats

I dont really want a bar or cage. Want to retain use of the rear seats

[kropscamaro16]

sorry? lol doesnt work that way as far as i know no grown adult can fit in the back seat anyway

[Makatich]

Stick with the OEM safety belt. Aftermarket four point harnesses are not a safe option and many people don't install our mount them correctly. Sure they look really sweet, but many tracks won't even allow them and they require you to stick with the OEM restraints. Scroth would be a good option as they are vehicle specific, yet they don't make one for the Camaro. If you follow the instructions in the performance manual supplement on how to use the OEM restraint you will feel much more secure. Save the money that you would spent on the harness for pads and tires for the track!

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Makatich

Stick with the OEM safety belt. Aftermarket four point harnesses are not a safe option and many people don't install our mount them correctly. Sure they look really sweet, but many tracks won't even allow them and they require you to stick with the OEM restraints. Scroth would be a good option as they are vehicle specific, yet they don't make one for the Camaro. If you follow the instructions in the performance manual supplement on how to use the OEM restraint you will feel much more secure. Save the money that you would spent on the harness for pads and tires for the track!

+1

[Apex_Missing_Ape]

Makatich is right! I've done track days with PCA and JTI and neither allow for 4 point harness, with the sole exception a Scroth that is vehicle specific (lucky Ford and Porsche guys!).

[Move_Over]

I use a rallye 4, which i am about to sell since i am moving to a 6pt. Let me know if you are interested

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Makatich

Stick with the OEM safety belt. Aftermarket four point harnesses are not a safe option and many people don't install our mount them correctly. Sure they look really sweet, but many tracks won't even allow them and they require you to stick with the OEM restraints. Scroth would be a good option as they are vehicle specific, yet they don't make one for the Camaro. If you follow the instructions in the performance manual supplement on how to use the OEM restraint you will feel much more secure. Save the money that you would spent on the harness for pads and tires for the track!

+1! Our seats are not designed for any type of harness.
Our roofs dont have high ratings for roll over protection, so even running a proper seat with just a harness bar would be questionable imo. Besides it would render rear seats unusable.

[artey34]

Has anyone used the Schroth Rallye 3 ASM? They just attach up at the C-Pillar and appear to be a safer alternative while keeping the stock Recaros

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by Makatich

Stick with the OEM safety belt. Aftermarket four point harnesses are not a safe option and many people don't install our mount them correctly. Sure they look really sweet, but many tracks won't even allow them and they require you to stick with the OEM restraints. Scroth would be a good option as they are vehicle specific, yet they don't make one for the Camaro. If you follow the instructions in the performance manual supplement on how to use the OEM restraint you will feel much more secure. Save the money that you would spent on the harness for pads and tires for the track!

+1

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by artey34

Has anyone used the Schroth Rallye 3 ASM? They just attach up at the C-Pillar and appear to be a safer alternative while keeping the stock Recaros

I have Rallye 3's in my Camaro. I'm 6'7" tall, and I can't get the factory seatbelt to lock since I sit so far back. Also, even if they certified the Quick Fit Pro's for our cars, I still couldn't used them. My shoulders are above the top of the seat backs, so in an accident, the belts would be pulling down on my shoulders instead of the seat back. The Rallye 3's don't rely on the seat back to withstand any loading, but they still have the anti-submarining technology, so they act like a 3 point in an accident. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction against 4 point belts, but they are likely not aware of the Schroth (and Takata) ASM tech.



I know the Rallye 3's are still not recommended by Schroth for our cars, but I spent a lot of time to ensure they were installed properly (example, I had to swap out the headrests for the non-Recaro version, to give enough clearance for the shoulder straps to clear the underside of the headrest.), and I personally believe the risk to be minimal. However, I've seen how a few others have installed them in Camaro's, and it's scary, from using bolts that are too short, to putting the shoulder straps around the outsides of the headrest posts. Consequently, I can see why some organizations won't let you run them. That said, there is no guarantee that a 5 or 6 point is going to be installed properly either. I saw one car that had the shoulder straps attached to the lap belt anchors!



Unfortunately, safety equipment use in general is a grey area, with lots of speculation and conjecture about what you should or shouldn't use, but there's not much actual testing to back it up, and then you have people with questionable knowledge installing them.


Nigel

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

I have Rallye 3's in my Camaro. I'm 6'7" tall, and I can't get the factory seatbelt to lock since I sit so far back. Also, even if they certified the Quick Fit Pro's for our cars, I still couldn't used them. My shoulders are above the top of the seat backs, so in an accident, the belts would be pulling down on my shoulders instead of the seat back. The Rallye 3's don't rely on the seat back to withstand any loading, but they still have the anti-submarining technology, so they act like a 3 point in an accident. Unfortunately, a lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction against 4 point belts, but they are likely not aware of the Schroth (and Takata) ASM tech.



I know the Rallye 3's are still not recommended by Schroth for our cars, but I spent a lot of time to ensure they were installed properly (example, I had to swap out the headrests for the non-Recaro version, to give enough clearance for the shoulder straps to clear the underside of the headrest.), and I personally believe the risk to be minimal. However, I've seen how a few others have installed them in Camaro's, and it's scary, from using bolts that are too short, to putting the shoulder straps around the outsides of the headrest posts. Consequently, I can see why some organizations won't let you run them. That said, there is no guarantee that a 5 or 6 point is going to be installed properly either. I saw one car that had the shoulder straps attached to the lap belt anchors!



Unfortunately, safety equipment use in general is a grey area, with lots of speculation and conjecture about what you should or shouldn't use, but there's not much actual testing to back it up, and then you have people with questionable knowledge installing them.


Nigel

Are you using a HANS device with your harness? If not, what's holding your head back if you hit something head-on while you're strapped in with your harness? The 3-pt belt allows your torso to somewhat rotate forward in that event and lets the airbag do some of the work in catching your upper body and head. A 4-pt doesn't let your torso move nearly as much and the airbag won't be nearly as effective against the smaller surface area of your head alone, especially if you're sitting further away from the steering wheel in the first place. Take a look at some HANS device demo videos and you'll see what I'm talking about.

This also ties into what TrackClub touched on in the event of a rollover. If the roof comes down and you're strapped in with a 3-pt belt, your torso can still bend giving you room to move with the roof. With a 4-pt, only your head/neck can move to avoid the roof coming down, which is a lot smaller range of motion. This would also become worse the taller you are since you're starting off closer to the roof. Proper installation of the harness doesn't change either of those.

@ OP, if you haven't tried locking yourself in with the belt as described in the manual, try that first. Tighten the belt to the point where it's uncomfortable sitting still if you have to. I've found it to be very restraining, comparable to other cars with proper harness and roll bar setups, and have had 0 issues with any sliding or anything like that on the track. Works for me (6'0 and 170 lbs) and got the same feedback from a friend that's gone out on track with me (about 5'8 and less than 140 soaking wet) who owns said car with proper roll bar and harness setup. If that still doesn't work for you, try adding some additional bolstering to the seat. A harness alone won't help that much if you're still sliding around in the OE setup and will likely cause more harm than good if you end up in a serious enough accident.

[GTSLOW]

Stick with the stock seatbelts. I'm not sure what the OP is talking about when he mentions "a safer alternative."