[Yosh6]

Getting ready to TRY to install ATI Super Damper with 10% Under drive pulley(s) and have a few questions. I've searched this forum and YouTube and found some good info, but need a little more if anyone can help. I have the puller and installer. Don't have the tool to hold the flexplate. Also have a new, stock crankshaft bolt and understand I will have to grind down the flange to get it to fit in the hub.



Are both pulleys 10% under drive?
Do both belts need to be replaced with shorter belts?
Have any belt part numbers?
Is the crankshaft slotted for the key?

If not, any advice on using RTV to fill the slot in the hub? i.e., prefill slot vs. adding after hub is on.

Can the install be done without pulling the fan? Radiator? Hose(s)?

Any ideas for torquing the crankshaft bolt? i.e. impact, vs regular torque wrench; how to keep engine from rotating during this process.
Any loctite on the crankshaft bolt?



Any advice appreciated.

[driven2exceSS]

I have not followed through with this myself, as of yet, due to focusing on battery "issues". The two together would not have been a good combo. I too had also searched the forum and YouTube like yourself with the intent of doing so. All that I have to share at this time is what has been shared with me by few fellow members, the new belt should be a NAPA #25-060560 (aprox $25). And I would probably use Blue Loctite vs Red. Crank bolt torque 240 ft lb. Certainly see what others have to say... and share what you find and experience yourself. Thanks!

[danhr]

Originally Posted by Yosh6

Are both pulleys 10% under drive?

no, just ththe one that drives the accessories. Ac stays the same

Do both belts need to be replaced with shorter belts?
Have any belt part numbers?
only belt you need is 060560

Is the crankshaft slotted for the key?

yes

If not, any advice on using RTV to fill the slot in the hub? i.e., prefill slot vs. adding after hub is on.

Can the install be done without pulling the fan? Radiator? Hose(s)?

I did mine without pulling anything

Any ideas for torquing the crankshaft bolt? i.e. impact, vs regular torque wrench; how to keep engine from rotating during this process.
Any loctite on the crankshaft bolt?

get your 1/2 breaker bar, and probably a cheater pipe and give her hell. An impact will most likely not have enough power to get to 240 ft lbs, and I think u would need like a 3/4 drive torque wrench to get up to 240 ft lbs.



Any advice appreciated.

So torque the bolt to 240 and then take it off and put your new bolt on and torque... I use blue loctite on the new bolt. When you are tightening up the old bolt, use a straight edge to make sure the balancer pulley grooves are parallel with the pulley grooves on everything else.

[Yosh6]

Many thanks, Danhr. Very useful and all good news. I'll post after it is done with any additional comments.

[Yosh6]

My, apologies in advance. I over think everything, so this is long.


ATI is a good company and makes good products. However, the ”kit” and instructions (4 pages) that accompany the Super Damper for the Gen6 Camaro 10% UD (Part #918857) leave a lot to be desired. This product has little mercy on the amateur DIY mechanic installing one of these dampers for the first time. The specific part number for the Gen 6 Camaro is never mentioned in the instructions. The first two pages of the instructions are generic for current LT1 engines beginning with the 2014 C7. There are nine (9) steps. The last two pages cover LS engine installations.


Step 1 discusses two-part hub assemblies and one-part hub assemblies with part numbers that apply, but the Gen 6 Camaro is not one of them. It is a one part hub.


Steps 2 and 3 discuss assembly of the hub to the pulley. There are 4-bolt, 6-bolt and 9-bold assemblies. Gen 6 Camaro is 9-bolt. Knowing that, you have to filter out discussion about a 5 ½” damper with ¼”-20 bolts (Gen 6 assembly has six (6) 5/16” bolts and three (3) 3/8” bolts.) You will need a 12-point, 3/8" socket for the three 3/8" bolts. The six (6) 5/16” bolts are rose head (countersunk) bolts which require “the proper” Torx -40 Plus bit driver. Torx Plus is not a standard Torx bit. It is special and very hard to find in my experience. You need it on-hand before you start this project. ATI has them listed in their 2016 product catalogue for $3.95 and they should have thrown one in with this “kit”. Again, not very friendly to the DIY. More on Torx Plus – it is not Security Torx (the one with the hole in the middle). AND some marketers are calling them “Star” bits. I bought a set of Star Plus bits that turned out to be nothing but security Torx. $27 down the drain.


Step 4 discusses installation of the damper/hub to the crankshaft. Highly recommends using an anti-seize lubricant on the crankshaft. To me, that means Neverseize (industrial product common in refineries and petro-chemical plants). Do you have any? Didn’t think so and ATI does not supply a little bit for you in the “kit”. There may be other products that work just fine.


Step 5 discusses the press fit of the hub to the crankshaft that is “vital to transfer harmonics to the damper assembly.” States that GM cranks are typically to tolerance +/-.0001 (one ten thousandth). Next, they say the recommended press fit for a 1.3750” – 1.6000” crank is .0007” to .0009” (seven to nine ten thousandths of an inch). (Called ATI and they say the finished bore of the hub should be 1.4815”.) That appears to be true since my measurement with a snap gauge and micrometer came up to 1.481” +/- .001”. So, if the crank is 1.483” (stated in ATI catalog for an LT4) we will have a 0.0015” (fifteen ten thousandths) interference fit. Tighter than recommended in the instructions, but ATI said the hub “should not need to be honed”. So, will proceed with install unless actual crank measurement is too large.


Step 6 discusses rear mounted pulleys. N/A


Step 7 discusses installation using the proper damper remover/installer tool. This is a must according to two people that I have talked to that actually installed Super Dampers. ATI sells them; maybe other places too. Also not in the instructions, some say to lightly oil the outside of the hub with oil to prevent damage to the seal. (Some YouTube videos suggest following the tool with the old crankshaft bolt torqued to spec [240 ft. lb.+/-]. Then remove the old bolt and reinstall the new one (some say with blue Loctite) and re-torque.



Step 8 discusses the crank bolt. Instructions mention the stock bolt is a “one-time use” bolt. They do not mention that the stock bolt will not fit without grinding down the outside shoulder of the bolt. (The opening in the hub is too small for the shoulder.) See this post by ULTRAZLS1 for more on that as well as ARP aftermarket bolt. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...ight=ARP+crank.


Step 9 discusses drive mandrels N/A.


As mentioned earlier by danhr only the accessory (water pump and alternator) belt has to be replaced. However, since the AC belt is a stretch-fit belt, I decided to replace it also just as insurance.



Will post follow up after install.

[Snowblind]

I would recommend using some RTV on the crankbolt, I did get some seepage of oil probably thru the key way. The fan assy was removed to do my UDP as well, it's only 4 bolts and a bunch of clips. Good luck

[Yosh6]

Thanks, Snowblind. Unfortunately, I am just now reading your post and the damper is on and the bolt torqued. I did use blue loctite on the bolt threads. Also the stock bolt has a red coating on the pulley side of the bolt flange that looks like it is meant to be a gasket or sealant. Hopefully, that will do. I would be more nervous about it if I had used an after market bolt. I'll post back later if there is seepage.



The install went well, the puller and installer worked well except the washer on the installer turned concave. Would suggest double washer or thicker washer. Finished with the old bolt to 240# torque, removed and installed the new bolt to 240# torque. Chose to remove the fan, lower hose, and belly pan just to make it easier. The installer tool was almost too long (about 9") but it did work.



Crankshaft measured 1.4823", so the interference fit was 0.0008" (8 ten thousandths) - Perfect right out of the box.


Strangely, the most difficult part of this job was getting the new AC belt installed. The stretch fit belt install tool would not work so had to revert to the zip tie method and it was a BEAR! +1 for using the old belt because a new stretch fit belt is, well, not stretched.



Why did I do this? Mainly to help the engine run smoother and live longer. And this is one step towards a cam (just thinking ....) and spinning the engine higher. Don't have high expectations for performance even though ATI advertises 12-30 HP increase http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...amper_tech.htm . Any WHP increase will be a bonus. A guy at the track (Brad) that looked like he knew something said it was worth a half a tenth. I'll take that. As ULTRAZLS1 said, a lot of little things can add up to to being a little bit faster than the next guy (or something like that).


Good luck, hope this info helps if you decide to install a Super Damper.

[USAFS197]

I think at best you might get 5-8whp from the pulley. But it's just another thing to knock out during your full-bolt-on process.

[danhr]

It kills two birds with one stone, as you need am SFI approved balancer to go 10.99 or faster

[driven2exceSS]

Bet you're glad thats done! Appreciate the update, info...

[TEEZYSS]

UGH now I have no excuse not to do mine!!! Thank you for the info YOSH6

[Nightfall SS]

Bringing this back with a few further questions, opportunities to provide lessons learned.

1. For those who have installed, did your dampers not come pre assembled? Yosh6 talked about having to tighten the 9 bolts holding the assembly together. Mine did come pre assembled and I had called ATI who is saying that it should be good to go already lock tight applied and torqued.

2. Yosh6 mentioned being able to utilize the zip tie method for getting the AC belt on. Could anyone who was able to do this elaborate on where you ran the zip ties? Also was it on the compressor pulley that you did so or the ATI pulley. I do not see any options with my own eyes are any holes to run a zip tie through.

3. I see in reading that the stock crank is keyed. Does that mean there is a separate "key" piece of material that will fall out when I remove the stock damper and is there a trick to getting it to install when pressing on the new one? or does it just slide in relatively easy into the slot after i press the new pully on. Also I read that snowblind saw a bit of oil seepage not use RTV but again using a new OEM bolt ground down for installation would it still be recommended?

4. I read about ensuring the pullys track correctly together during installation. This part confuses me as after seating the pully using the installer, you bring it the rest of the way seated using the old OEM bolt torques to 240ftlbs. Wont this adjust the tracking of the pully regardless?

Thanks in advance.

[Yosh6]

1. My damper was NOT pre assembled. Can't tell you why some would come assembled and others not. May have to do with where you buy it. Mine came from a vendor. Don't know.

2. No holes to run the zip tie through. Used the "zip tie method" loosely. This part is hard to explain and there has to be a better way. Put a zip tie around the belt and used the zip tie as something to pull against. Used a pry bar to pull on THE ZIP TIE to coax the belt on to the pulley. Two man job. One to turn the crank, one to wrestle the belt. It was a fight. Put the belt on the compressor first and then the ATI. There are several different types of stretch fit belt tools. The one I had wouldn't work without a hole in the pulley. If you can find the proper tool, that would be the way to go.


3. Key stayed in place on the crankshaft and the pulley went right on with no issue.


4. I used blue lock tite (JB Weld blue thread locker actually. Regular 242 blue lock tite has a temperature threshold of 150 F. JB Weld brand is 300 F) If you can find lock tite 246 high heat blue it is even higher. I couldn't find it locally.) I have not had any seepage. If I had it to do over, I would have added some RTV just as extra insurance (not in place of thread locker but in addition to on the top 1/2" or so of the threads and on the face of the shoulder bolt.


5. There was no issue with the belts tracking properly. Once the ATI was torqued, the pulleys aligned perfectly.


Hope this helps you a little. Good luck!

[Nightfall SS]

Outstanding, thanks Yosh for replying. Looks like I'm going to have to leave a trail of beer leading to my garage to get someone to help me out with that belt lol. I feel much better about the alignment as well. Renting the autozone "Chrysler style" puller and an OEM universal installer tonight. Already purchased all the required hazmat to include antiseize for the crank hub and locktight but I will use your recommendation of finding the high temperature version of the blue to play it safe. Thanks again!