[tx6g1le]

I competed in my first Pro Solo this weekend in my 1LE. The problem is the only way I could get the car to not bog off the line is in full off (hold TC for 10 secs). This however, made driving on the pea gravel impossible. Anyone have any insight? tried all the PTMs, i.e. Race, Sport 1, Sport 2.

[mjk3888]

I would've kept it in Race mode. You have to sacrifice certain areas to be better on average. Remember to not dump the clutch in PTM launch modes. The better the surface the faster the clutch release. Also practice a little throttle control on corner exit since Race mode is a bit too agressive for full throttle corner exits.

[Egon]

Ok watched your video a few times. The problem is you are launching too aggressively for the conditions. (tire pressure, surface prep, temp etc) With the TC off you are just spinning the tires, and with TC on the car is compensating for the wheel spin by pulling back throttle. (that’s the bog you are feeling) Try a lower RPM, probably 3-4k and don’t sidestep the clutch.

I also noticed from watching the video that you are very aggressively over driving the car. When you are in one of the PTM modes you have the TC light lighting up constantly (16 times a lap average) especially when applying throttle in turns and the car is reducing throttle to keep you from spinning out. When you turned the TC off you felt like the car was impossible to control because you are developing bad habits that the TC is covering up for you. The laps you ran with the TC fully off is how all of the other laps would have been if you hadn’t had the nannies intervening to keep the car under control. Since you are auto crossing, and it is a relatively safe environment I HIGHLY recommend you turn off as much of the TC/PTM systems that you can and learn to drive without their intervention. Otherwise you run the risk of reinforcing bad habits and relying on the TC to cover for you.

Also DO NOT shift to 1st gear unless you are forced to drive an element at under 15 mph. The time you waste shifting can rarely ever be made up for in the additional acceleration from 1st, and the car becomes harder to control due to the extra torque in 1st gear. If you had the nannies off on those finishes where you shifted to first you probably would have taken out the timing lights on both runs. Your course designer set up the finishes that way to keep people from going too fast though the timing lights, ask me how I know this.

Here are the runs I had from this weekend at our event at the Michelin Proving Grounds, Blacklake in Laurens SC. There are two videos because my Gopro died on my 4th and fastest run so I had to pull that off my dash cam so no sound. There are no overlays to show throttle/rpm and speed but hopefully you can see how I have the car under control the entire time despite having the TC completely off. The exception is the first run where for whatever reason even after 3 course walks I forgot how sharp the first turn was going to be with wet pavement and over drove into the first slalom, I also had some issues on the back sweeper which I fixed for the most part on the following runs.





Maybe if mjk3888 is willing he can post his PDR videos from the same event for comparison. Sorry to put you on the spot bud but I think tx6g1le will find it helpful since you both have the same car.

[tx6g1le]

Originally Posted by Egon

Ok watched your video a few times. The problem is you are launching too aggressively for the conditions. (tire pressure, surface prep, temp etc) With the TC off you are just spinning the tires, and with TC on the car is compensating for the wheel spin by pulling back throttle. (that’s the bog you are feeling) Try a lower RPM, probably 3-4k and don’t sidestep the clutch.

No worries Egon and thank you for you for the help! I've been Autocrossing in an AWD Golf R before the Camaro so I'm admittedly heavy footed. I very recently found out about the "Full Off" mode for the TCs. When I tried it for the first time this past weekend my eyes were opened, to say the least. I agree now that I understand the TC settings it's time to begin re-learning the car and taking the training wheels off.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by tx6g1le

No worries Egon and thank you for you for the help! I've been Autocrossing in an AWD Golf R before the Camaro so I'm admittedly heavy footed. I very recently found out about the "Full Off" mode for the TCs. When I tried it for the first time this past weekend my eyes were opened, to say the least. I agree now that I understand the TC settings it's time to begin re-learning the car and taking the training wheels off.

I would guess you were able to get away with really aggressive launches in an AWD car and that may also be an issue you are trying to overcome with the RWD Camaro. When I first started autocross I was very reluctant to turn off the nannies and now that I can look back I am absolutely certain that it hindered my learning. I kept several bad habits that I wasn't even aware that I had because the car was compensating for me. Now I autocross with everything off, and I am a much better driver as a result. I still have a long way to go but I am finishing in the top 15-20% in PAX at most of our events, just behind the pro guys. I feel like I am finally in a place where I can entertain mods to the car because I have the knowledge and experience to make good decisions on things to change. There may be Koni Yellows and an adjustable swaybar in the future.

Because you tore up one of your tires are you going to be switching to a more autocross specific tire or replace it with one of the Goodyear 3s?

[mjk3888]

Originally Posted by Egon

Maybe if mjk3888 is willing he can post his PDR videos from the same event for comparison. Sorry to put you on the spot bud but I think tx6g1le will find it helpful since you both have the same car.

I'll try to get them loaded this weekend. I'll try to post the footage of the 57 flat run with 1 cone in Race and the 57.1 Fun Run with all assists off. Honestly I think I ran like garbage this weekend and I'm also curious if something was off as the all assists off runs began to feel like the E-LSD wasn't locking right. I got a little bit of one wheel peel action from time to time, but I also wonder if the car was in some sort of safety mode as it could read the tire pressures were low and the tires weren't warm. Hopefully I don't have the beginings of an E-LSD issue. I would hate to have to deal with telling the dealer that my car's diff isn't locking properly with all assists off at an Autocross. Sounds like the perfect storm to allow some tech to beat the hell out of my car.

[tx6g1le]

Originally Posted by Egon

I would guess you were able to get away with really aggressive launches in an AWD car and that may also be an issue you are trying to overcome with the RWD Camaro. When I first started autocross I was very reluctant to turn off the nannies and now that I can look back I am absolutely certain that it hindered my learning. I kept several bad habits that I wasn't even aware that I had because the car was compensating for me. Now I autocross with everything off, and I am a much better driver as a result. I still have a long way to go but I am finishing in the top 15-20% in PAX at most of our events, just behind the pro guys. I feel like I am finally in a place where I can entertain mods to the car because I have the knowledge and experience to make good decisions on things to change. There may be Koni Yellows and an adjustable swaybar in the future.

Because you tore up one of your tires are you going to be switching to a more autocross specific tire or replace it with one of the Goodyear 3s?

You're absolutely right. And turn-in with the haldex is almost idiot proof. I've run half a dozen AutoX events in various PTM settings but the launch forced me to change to full off. You could say I've been inspired to utilize full off from now on.

I'm going to try a set of 295 F and 305 R sport Cup 2s I've had in my garage for a few months. I wasn't impressed with the MPSS over the Oem goodyears so I'm ready for a change. I was also less competitive on the MPSS overall in my Novice class.

[crazydmc]

Originally Posted by Egon

Ok watched your video a few times. The problem is you are launching too aggressively for the conditions. (tire pressure, surface prep, temp etc) With the TC off you are just spinning the tires, and with TC on the car is compensating for the wheel spin by pulling back throttle. (that’s the bog you are feeling) Try a lower RPM, probably 3-4k and don’t sidestep the clutch.

I also noticed from watching the video that you are very aggressively over driving the car. When you are in one of the PTM modes you have the TC light lighting up constantly (16 times a lap average) especially when applying throttle in turns and the car is reducing throttle to keep you from spinning out. When you turned the TC off you felt like the car was impossible to control because you are developing bad habits that the TC is covering up for you. The laps you ran with the TC fully off is how all of the other laps would have been if you hadn’t had the nannies intervening to keep the car under control. Since you are auto crossing, and it is a relatively safe environment I HIGHLY recommend you turn off as much of the TC/PTM systems that you can and learn to drive without their intervention. Otherwise you run the risk of reinforcing bad habits and relying on the TC to cover for you.

Also DO NOT shift to 1st gear unless you are forced to drive an element at under 15 mph. The time you waste shifting can rarely ever be made up for in the additional acceleration from 1st, and the car becomes harder to control due to the extra torque in 1st gear. If you had the nannies off on those finishes where you shifted to first you probably would have taken out the timing lights on both runs. Your course designer set up the finishes that way to keep people from going too fast though the timing lights, ask me how I know this.

Here are the runs I had from this weekend at our event at the Michelin Proving Grounds, Blacklake in Laurens SC. There are two videos because my Gopro died on my 4th and fastest run so I had to pull that off my dash cam so no sound. There are no overlays to show throttle/rpm and speed but hopefully you can see how I have the car under control the entire time despite having the TC completely off. The exception is the first run where for whatever reason even after 3 course walks I forgot how sharp the first turn was going to be with wet pavement and over drove into the first slalom, I also had some issues on the back sweeper which I fixed for the most part on the following runs.





Maybe if mjk3888 is willing he can post his PDR videos from the same event for comparison. Sorry to put you on the spot bud but I think tx6g1le will find it helpful since you both have the same car.

great info.. also that stability control is using your brakes so don't be surprised when the brakes wear out.

nice video but the noise of stuff rolling back and forth in your car drove me crazy...

[Egon]

Originally Posted by tx6g1le

You're absolutely right. And turn-in with the haldex is almost idiot proof. I've run half a dozen AutoX events in various PTM settings but the launch forced me to change to full off. You could say I've been inspired to utilize full off from now on.

I'm going to try a set of 295 F and 305 R sport Cup 2s I've had in my garage for a few months. I wasn't impressed with the MPSS over the Oem goodyears so I'm ready for a change. I was also less competitive on the MPSS overall in my Novice class.

I preach nannies off every chance I can get as long as you are at the track or autocrossing. Not a big fan of turning them off on the street that shit just gets you into trouble more often than not.

Keep in mind that the Sport Cup 2s are 180 treadwear and are therefore not legal in street classes. (200 TW or higher for Street) If you are just running as a novice you might get away with it since they typically do not class cars for novices. And for the life of me I don't know why everyone sings the praises of the MPSS so much. To me they are absolute garbage since they cost more get about the same milage as the stock Goodyears and are worse performers than the stock Goodyears and other cheaper alternatives. They sure do seem to have a big following, but I know when I am autocrossing and I see one of my competitors is using them I just smile. Goodyear Supercar 2/3, RE71r, RE11, BGF g-Force Rival S, Z2 Star spec, Hankook RS3, Kumho V720 are all much better tires and they usually cost less too. I guess the MPSS and the recently released PS4S are popular because they make them in just about every size imaginable so people don't have to think about what fits.

Originally Posted by crazydmc

great info.. also that stability control is using your brakes so don't be surprised when the brakes wear out.

nice video but the noise of stuff rolling back and forth in your car drove me crazy...

Yah I have heard of people wearing out brakes very quickly in some circumstances when they leave the nannies on or partially on while tracking or doing autocross. Another good reason to learn with them off.

That was the discharged battery from my Gopro sitting in the cup holder. I don't realize things are making noises like that while I am driving because I am concentrating on other things, but it annoyed me as well when I watched the video after. Before that it was my alarm keyfob and house keys that are attached to my car key. You guys don't have to worry about stuff like that anymore.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by tx6g1le

I competed in my first Pro Solo this weekend in my 1LE. The problem is the only way I could get the car to not bog off the line is in full off (hold TC for 10 secs). This however, made driving on the pea gravel impossible. Anyone have any insight? tried all the PTMs, i.e. Race, Sport 1, Sport 2.

I am not going to "preach" nannies, but clearly PTM is likely poorly suited for autox. But, keep in mind there is also another mode available: Competitive Mode, which is very different from any PTM modes. You may wish to give it a try if you wish to have a bit of "insurance". See my post on the subject of Driving Modes Demystified for details.