[IneedAZ]

Just curious to how many more years can the Big 3 keep it up since the Cafe standards are getting more stringent. I read some where they need to hit 54.5 mpg by 2025. What are your thoughts, think by 2019 the hp levels will be going back down again?

[SuperSound]

Actually those new targets may get dropped along with other changes thanks to Trump's administration. Time will tell how this plays out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...mpanies-2017-3

[fastball]

The current administration is already in the process of softening the hardline oversight of the EPA. Like supersound said time will only tell what we'll have in the end, but I don't see the 54.5 mandate lasting.

Also, with cheaper gas and the $7500 tax credit for hybrids expiring, there is simply less motivation in the market place for people to buy a high MPG car. SUVs still rule the road, in America, and that's not changing. Hybrids and the like are not a very big slice of the pie chart of vehicle sales.

Like Bob Lutz once said, forcing people to buy high mileage cars with high MPG mandates is like forcing people to lose weight by mandating clothes companies that pants can be no larger than 32 inches.

This is the USA. We like our cars big and powerful. This isn't Europe, no matter how some of our, uh, previously elected officials wanted to force us into acting like it is.

[RenegadeXR]

Like the others said, it's pretty much guaranteed that the MPG mandate will be removed by the Trump administration. But I think it's just a matter of a delay -- how long depends on whether he is a one-term president or not.

I think that partially, just as a consequence of where the industry is headed and also keeping global market demand and requirements in mind, the fleet-wide MPG rating of most auto manufacturers will inevitably go up considerably. However, here in the U.S., for cars like the Camaro which really have almost no sales elsewhere, a little bit of the pressure is now off the engineers.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

Like the others said, it's pretty much guaranteed that the MPG mandate will be removed by the Trump administration. But I think it's just a matter of a delay -- how long depends on whether he is a one-term president or not.

Well, considering the director of the EPA is now a person who has been against its very existence I think they can decimate the department irreparably.

Depending on which side you're on obviously determines whether you think this is good or not.

I personally believe the EPA does have it's merits in cases like water and wildlife preservation. Being a native Clevelander I'm very aware of the Cuyahoga River fire in 1969 and how it was a strong factor in the founding of the EPA in 1974. Today the Cuyahoga is clean, clear, and full of fish and other wildlife, thanks to the EPA. Our local high school rowing teams use it for practice.

But in other cases like the auto industry, the EPA is bloated, overreaching, over mandating, and could definitely use some drastic slashing.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by fastball

But in other cases the EPA is bloated, overreaching, over mandating, and could definitely use some drastic slashing.

Think you could say that about every government agency lol.

[Ryephile]

Given there's no emissions measurement for a car at WOT, there's pretty much no correlation between HP and EPA measured emissions and fuel economy.

The corporate FE average can be offset with credits and/or simply paying fines. It doesn't require every car meet any particular lower FE threshold, just a maximum tailpipe emission during the predefined drive cycles. As such, in reality, OEMs can continue to make gazillion HP cars as long as there's a market to buy them.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Let's be mindful of how deeply we dive into politics...

A few things to focus on -

#1, the 54.5 # is not the same as the numbers we read on window stickers. Most car companies are on track to meet that goal.

#2, the target is on a sliding scale, relative to vehicle footprint. The larger footprint made by the track width multiplied by the wheelbase, the less mpg that car should meet.

#3, trucks have their own set of standards, far lower than cars.

#4, this may all be moot in a matter of months, anyways, when the standards are undone...or at the very least, made to be more realistic.


Here's what I'm most curious about...costs have been driven up by these fuel economy standards. In addition to more expensive technologies...companies charge more for gas guzzlers than may be necessary, because it reduces volume of that particular model - helping the CAFE figure.

If that is undone...will prices settle back down?

[khell86]

You've also got to remember that despite the US possible stepping back on CAFE standards, the rest of the world isn't. Looks like a lot of these car companies are beginning to streamline their offerings and it could make better fiscal sense to offer the same engines here and abroad as well.

The car companies have also been working on these requirements for years already and are most likely not going to cancel them with the possibility that 4 years from now we have a new president who raises CAFE standards to where they were with the Obama administration.

I'm thinking hardly anything will really change.

[90503]

Originally Posted by khell86

You've also got to remember that despite the US possible stepping back on CAFE standards, the rest of the world isn't. Looks like a lot of these car companies are beginning to streamline their offerings and it could make better fiscal sense to offer the same engines here and abroad as well.

The car companies have also been working on these requirements for years already and are most likely not going to cancel them with the possibility that 4 years from now we have a new president who raises CAFE standards to where they were with the Obama administration.

I'm thinking hardly anything will really change.

I agree, and would add that additionally California sets its own separate emissions standards that have been adopted in thirteen other states. If I recall, GM is basically building all it's cars and trucks to CA emissions standards for the last year or two for sale nationwide...

Not sure how this ties in with CAFE or HP, but California and likely the other states have no plans to give up their federal exemption to allow lower emissions standards to be set. As you mentioned, automakers have already planned ahead and probably won't risk scrapping any technology in the works.

If anything changes, it may be that simply the status quo will remain in affect longer for the forseeable future...

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by 90503

I agree, and would add that additionally California sets its own separate emissions standards that have been adopted in thirteen other states. If I recall, GM is basically building all it's cars and trucks to CA emissions standards for the last year or two for sale nationwide...

Not sure how this ties in with CAFE or HP, but California and likely the other states have no plans to give up their federal exemption to allow lower emissions standards to be set. As you mentioned, automakers have already planned ahead and probably won't risk scrapping any technology in the works.

If anything changes, it may be that simply the status quo will remain in affect longer for the forseeable future...

How about after California Secedes like they promised?

[avalonandl]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

How about after California Secedes like they promised?

Can we send it to NORTH KOREA.....?


Kim Jung Un and NAZI PELOSI.... what a pair....

[kevint]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

How about after California Secedes like they promised?

If that happens, the (southern) states reliant on federal funding to survive will be boned pretty hard.

Edit: Also, one way to build power is to reduce parasitic losses, which also increases efficiency.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Hybrid pony cars will happen eventually and can actually produce great performance results, look at the Tesla electric motors. When that day comes, just give me at least a moderately powered V8 for the sound with an electric motor on each wheel. A car could potentially run 9 second or better 1/4 miles like this.

Didn't Ford say that a hybrid Mustang is coming ? Around 2020 or so ?

Found this link... http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ustang-hybrid/

I wonder if this is really going to happen, since Fields is gone.