[tgood3131]

Before my first track event I took my car to Cobb Tuning Plano to get a track alignment and was told that the front camber can not be adjusted without camber plates, which Vorshlag hasn't released yet for our car. Does anybody know a way to adjust the camber without plates?

[Ryephile]

The strut mount bolt holes are elongated like most 2-bolt strut mounting methods to allow a limited amount of camber adjustment. This is why GM is able to publish recommended Street and Track alignments for the 1LE's and ZL1. Most owners seem to be getting roughly -2.2° max front camber with the factory hardware.

Cobb must've had a brain fart moment; they're usually good with the obvious stuff like that. The mounting method is nothing new.

[AZ_1LE]

Yea, the lower strut mount bolt holes are elongated for this purpose.

[tgood3131]

I was shooting for -2 in the front and -1 in the back so I'm good with that max spec. Thanks for the info, I'm going back to Cobb and making them give me an alignment for free.

[Ryephile]

FYI, the GM Track alignment is -2.0° front and -1.5° rear camber with 0.1° total toe front and rear. Page 18 of the Performance Supplement manual.

[seanblurr]

I'm running -2.4F and -1.6R on my car. No camber plates needed.

[glamcem]

^^ that's what I am planning to do next (-2.4 front and maybe -1.8 rear to get rid of that slight tire rubbing). I am currently at -2.2 front and -1.6 rear . Since I wasn't sure about the fitment with 5mm spacers, grinding and new 19" wheels I didn't want the guy to add any more than -2.2.

With that said, I can also confirm that for that amount of camber, camber plate shouldn't be needed (if you are planning to run OEM 20" wheels). I also need to add, when he first untightened the camber bolt we saw -2.6, -2.7 camber then we backed down

[JeromeS13]

I went for my track alignment today... When they adjusted the rear camber to -1.5 degrees, they couldn't get the toe anywhere near .1 degrees on the left side... The max it would go was around -.7 degrees... I crawled under the car to verify that it was maxed out... I need to order toe links...

[seanblurr]

hmmm you definitely shouldn't need toe links, there is a lot of room to play back there. Most shops will use 16ths for toe instead of degree's, not sure why GM does that. I'd shoot for 1/32 on each side, giving you a total of 1/16 toe in for the rear. Generally a good starting place.

My current set up is: F: -2.4* camber, -1/16 toe (out). R: -1.6* camber, 1/16 toe (in)

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

hmmm you definitely shouldn't need toe links, there is a lot of room to play back there. Most shops will use 16ths for toe instead of degree's, not sure why GM does that. I'd shoot for 1/32 on each side, giving you a total of 1/16 toe in for the rear. Generally a good starting place.

My current set up is: F: -2.4* camber, -1/16 toe (out). R: -1.6* camber, 1/16 toe (in)

I wasn't sure which one was toe out (negative or positive) but it seems like the GM's front toe specs is a bit weird, not sure why they recommend toe in. I accidentally let the guy followed the track alignment specs (0.10 degree total toe so it's toe in) :/ Next time I go there I will tell him to do either 0 total toe for front or just a little bit of toe out up front. That might explain the unwillingness of my car's turn in even with the wider tires up front (305s) ugh

[NBR IPD]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

I went for my track alignment today... When they adjusted the rear camber to -1.5 degrees, they couldn't get the toe anywhere near .1 degrees on the left side... The max it would go was around -.7 degrees... I crawled under the car to verify that it was maxed out... I need to order toe links...

Is your decimal place and sign convention correct? -0.7 degrees = 7 * 0.1 degrees * -1. You have toe out (negative) or toe in (positive)? And 7 times the specification? If yes, I'm guessing you'll go through a couple sets of tires before the next oil change.

[NBR IPD]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

hmmm you definitely shouldn't need toe links, there is a lot of room to play back there. Most shops will use 16ths for toe instead of degree's, not sure why GM does that. I'd shoot for 1/32 on each side, giving you a total of 1/16 toe in for the rear. Generally a good starting place.

My current set up is: F: -2.4* camber, -1/16 toe (out). R: -1.6* camber, 1/16 toe (in)

Car makers and suppliers all use metric and degrees. Service uses both, and old school independent shops generally use English and distances. Probably legacy from the old string alignments when electronic heads were not available.

Here's why GM uses degrees instead of distances: degrees are independent of wheel/tire size. If a different size wheel/tire is applied to the vehicle a distance toe setting would have to change to get the same alignment. A degree specification gets rid of this wheel/tire size relativity complication and becomes more absolute - protects for whatever wheel/tire is applied to the car. Kind of like the difference between relative humidity and dew point. Dew point is an absolute measurement of water in the air (what your body feels) while relative humidity changes with temperature (needs 2 inputs vs. 1 absolute).

[NBR IPD]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I wasn't sure which one was toe out (negative or positive) but it seems like the GM's front toe specs is a bit weird, not sure why they recommend toe in. I accidentally let the guy followed the track alignment specs (0.10 degree total toe so it's toe in) :/ Next time I go there I will tell him to do either 0 total toe for front or just a little bit of toe out up front. That might explain the unwillingness of my car's turn in even with the wider tires up front (305s) ugh

GM specs seem normal. Toe out is weird at the front to me. Toe-in at the front will decrease understeer and preload the suspension bushings in the turning direction for more direct and immediate turning feel. Toe-out at the front will do the opposite: increase understeer and unload the front suspension bushings against the turning direction making the steering on center loose effort build start more degrees away from center.

Most manufacturers use 0 to some small amount of toe-in at the front for the bushing pre-load reason. Here's a sample compilation list (sign conventions: positive = toe in for toe, negative = top of tire in for camber):

[seanblurr]

*I would also highly recommend you guys (as in any and all 1LE owners) go get your alignments checked, even if you keep the street settings. Mine was a decent bit out of wack from the factory and caused some horrible driving issues (lots of tram line). I remember a few other members posting the same PSA.