Cam Swap/E85

southuser · 09-23-2016, 03:59 PM

I was wondering if it was necessary to do a cam swap, and a flex fuel sensor without having to upgrade the fuel pump, and injectors. Reason being is I was told by a shop that in order to do the flex fuel sensor along with the cam swap I had to upgrade the fuel system due to the increased fuel consumption of the e85. I know fuel consumption increases with the usage of e85, but does it affect the stock fuel system that much? Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Ian SS · 09-23-2016, 04:03 PM

Depends on how much power you are trying to squeeze out. I would say up to ~480whp with e85 on stock fuel system. Maybe more. Pump gas runs out of fuel around 600 if im not mistaken.

southuser · 09-23-2016, 04:13 PM

WoW! I didn't know it was that much of a difference. Thanks for the feedback man I really appreciate it

wnta1ss · 09-23-2016, 05:54 PM

Ethanol contains much less energy than gasoline, so if your chosen fuel is made up of mostly ethanol, you must supply significantly more of it to make the same hp as you did with gasoline. That is why the capacity of the fuel system could be a concern.

parish8 · 09-23-2016, 06:23 PM

My thoughts are stock we are around 400rwhp. Just add e85 and a tune probably pushes that to 430rwhp. I think doing a cam on top of that would be cutting it too close.

My question then would be how about a cam with the larger fuel lobe and an otherwise stock fuel system. Where do things max out then?

Also as far as I know no one has figured out how to make a flex fuel sensor work on one of these.

southuser · 09-23-2016, 10:28 PM

Thats true, plus the car is already full bolt on, but Vengance Racing has the flex fuel sensor available, but it's a in-house only install where they install it for you at their shop.

TSloper · 09-24-2016, 09:25 AM

I'm dyno tuning for true E85 on Monday. With the stock E85 calibrations my injector PW is on average in the mid 5 ms range. Doing some rough calculations I'd put the max power output with the stock fuel system in the high 400s without being on the bleeding tail edge of the injection window.

On the Flex Fuel sensor issue... I have an arduino board coming in today and I'm going to mimic the output of the FF sensor and see how the ECM responds. Supposedly it won't read over 51% but we will see. I do have the actually sensor but I don't want to go through the hassle of connecting it up just to find out it won't work. So feeding the simulated signal in is quick and easy. Plus I can change it at will to see if there is a potential workaround for the potential issue already highlighted.

laynlo15 · 09-24-2016, 10:41 PM

My next mod will be E85 if I can find someone that can HP tune it for me. I don't want to run it full time in our Missouri climate although I won't drive in the winter much unless its a nice warm winter day. I do have HP tuners but have no idea how to tune for the E85, way out of my ability.

oldman · 09-25-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSloper

I'm dyno tuning for true E85 on Monday. With the stock E85 calibrations my injector PW is on average in the mid 5 ms range. Doing some rough calculations I'd put the max power output with the stock fuel system in the high 400s without being on the bleeding tail edge of the injection window.

On the Flex Fuel sensor issue... I have an arduino board coming in today and I'm going to mimic the output of the FF sensor and see how the ECM responds. Supposedly it won't read over 51% but we will see. I do have the actually sensor but I don't want to go through the hassle of connecting it up just to find out it won't work. So feeding the simulated signal in is quick and easy. Plus I can change it at will to see if there is a potential workaround for the potential issue already highlighted.

Please post your email and I'll send my $30 Paypal for you to do my work for me.

All I've been on many boards from Ricer boards where I got my handle "oldman" to LS1.com sending a small bit of cash to guys actually doing the work is the only way to get er done and have no vendor bias.

oldman · 09-25-2016, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laynlo15

My next mod will be E85 if I can find someone that can HP tune it for me. I don't want to run it full time in our Missouri climate although I won't drive in the winter much unless its a nice warm winter day. I do have HP tuners but have no idea how to tune for the E85, way out of my ability.

The way it sounds I should not have to change my tune if any with the sensor. I really should have setup lamdda for the wideband. I'm so use to A/F and did not want to fool with it. For flex fuel lamdda is the only way to know what is happening. Oh well some dip switches and trial / error to get the HP Tuner and the wideband to lambda

TSloper · 09-25-2016, 12:19 PM

With the sensor you will tune for 91/93 and then tune for E85. The ECM will blend properly between the two in real time based on alcohol content.

tim.sloper@outlook.com

I will help you get your MAF dialed in properly. All I need is the log data from you with the appropriate parameters.

09-23-2016, 03:59 PM	#1
southuser Drives: 2016 Hyper Blue Metallic 2SS Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7	Cam Swap/E85 I was wondering if it was necessary to do a cam swap, and a flex fuel sensor without having to upgrade the fuel pump, and injectors. Reason being is I was told by a shop that in order to do the flex fuel sensor along with the cam swap I had to upgrade the fuel system due to the increased fuel consumption of the e85. I know fuel consumption increases with the usage of e85, but does it affect the stock fuel system that much? Any help would be greatly appreciated...

09-23-2016, 04:03 PM	#2
Ian SS Drives: 2016 1SS, 2017 JKU Wrangler Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: San Diego Posts: 876 View My Garage	Depends on how much power you are trying to squeeze out. I would say up to ~480whp with e85 on stock fuel system. Maybe more. Pump gas runs out of fuel around 600 if im not mistaken. __________________ SLO 1SS - sold 1SS MRC NPP 6MT 2018 Ram Rebel 4x4 5.7

09-23-2016, 04:13 PM	#3
southuser Drives: 2016 Hyper Blue Metallic 2SS Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7	WoW! I didn't know it was that much of a difference. Thanks for the feedback man I really appreciate it

09-23-2016, 05:54 PM	#4
wnta1ss Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: NH Posts: 1,713	Ethanol contains much less energy than gasoline, so if your chosen fuel is made up of mostly ethanol, you must supply significantly more of it to make the same hp as you did with gasoline. That is why the capacity of the fuel system could be a concern.

09-23-2016, 06:23 PM	#5
parish8 Drives: 17 SS a8 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: omaha Posts: 1,678	My thoughts are stock we are around 400rwhp. Just add e85 and a tune probably pushes that to 430rwhp. I think doing a cam on top of that would be cutting it too close. My question then would be how about a cam with the larger fuel lobe and an otherwise stock fuel system. Where do things max out then? Also as far as I know no one has figured out how to make a flex fuel sensor work on one of these.

09-23-2016, 10:28 PM	#6
southuser Drives: 2016 Hyper Blue Metallic 2SS Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7	Thats true, plus the car is already full bolt on, but Vengance Racing has the flex fuel sensor available, but it's a in-house only install where they install it for you at their shop.

09-24-2016, 09:25 AM	#7
TSloper Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Mount Dora, FL Posts: 779	I'm dyno tuning for true E85 on Monday. With the stock E85 calibrations my injector PW is on average in the mid 5 ms range. Doing some rough calculations I'd put the max power output with the stock fuel system in the high 400s without being on the bleeding tail edge of the injection window. On the Flex Fuel sensor issue... I have an arduino board coming in today and I'm going to mimic the output of the FF sensor and see how the ECM responds. Supposedly it won't read over 51% but we will see. I do have the actually sensor but I don't want to go through the hassle of connecting it up just to find out it won't work. So feeding the simulated signal in is quick and easy. Plus I can change it at will to see if there is a potential workaround for the potential issue already highlighted.

09-24-2016, 10:41 PM	#8
laynlo15 Drives: 2022 Lt1 A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: clark, mo Posts: 8,882	My next mod will be E85 if I can find someone that can HP tune it for me. I don't want to run it full time in our Missouri climate although I won't drive in the winter much unless its a nice warm winter day. I do have HP tuners but have no idea how to tune for the E85, way out of my ability.

09-25-2016, 12:19 PM	#11
TSloper Drives: 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Mount Dora, FL Posts: 779	With the sensor you will tune for 91/93 and then tune for E85. The ECM will blend properly between the two in real time based on alcohol content. tim.sloper@outlook.com I will help you get your MAF dialed in properly. All I need is the log data from you with the appropriate parameters.

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