[Ace01]

I hope GM is working on Hybrid power plants for future sports cars such as the Camaro. They already have the Voltec tech to make a hybrid power plant that could put out 450 HP and get 100MPGE. I wish they would do it already and show the world they are a serious player. The Volt I had for 3 years go over 120 MPGE and had really great acceleration to 45 MPH. Example this delivery Van goes 0-to 60 in 3.08 seconds!! LOL.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/atie...he-drag-strip/

[HumanWiki]

They will have to be to remain relevant. ICE is going to be gone in some of our lifetimes. Most all the exotics are there or getting close. Formula E is a thing. Battery tech needs to improve a lot, but there's strides being made. There's even work being done to adapt roadways to provide rolling charge systems.

[Thor142]

It is exciting. On one hand it opens new doors for crazy HP cars, but closes the door on things like the brutish gas guzzling and absolutely beautiful LS7. Time marches on....

[qcman]

I can see there being a lot of broken eggs in a van that goes from 0-60 like that lol.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Time marches on....

We're basically getting to see the horseless carriage come about again. It's just that now, horseless is ICEless and automated.

[Adaraas]

As long as I can realistically do it. I will have a V8. Electric engines are cool and all, but its still no V8.

[RazorbackSS]

Originally Posted by Adaraas

As long as I can realistically do it. I will have a V8. Electric engines are cool and all, but its still no V8.

^^

[Techn9cian805]

That does sound pretty awesome performance-wise, but I will miss the sound of a NA V8...
by the time we do get those hybrid cars, we will probably lose manual trannies, and have some self-driving bullshit forced upon us as well... yippee...

The EPA I believe has also been pushing for a law that would make performance mods on street cars illegal... car enthusiasts are getting killed softly...

[Darcane]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

They will have to be to remain relevant. ICE is going to be gone in some of our lifetimes. Most all the exotics are there or getting close. Formula E is a thing. Battery tech needs to improve a lot, but there's strides being made. There's even work being done to adapt roadways to provide rolling charge systems.

I doubt there is any member of this board that will live long enough to see the death of the ICE, even just in new passenger cars.

I think of hybrids as a similar (but more complex) technology to EFI. It started with a few pioneers, gradually got more robust and widely used. Now it's hard to find anything that still uses a carburetor. Eventually, I believe hybrids will become the norm and virtually every new car is a hybrid (not necessarily electric though).

Pure electrics still have some significant hurdles to overcome before being widely accepted, and I'm not sure all of them can be. A few examples:

• Range anxiety. This is improving, but it still requires significant planning to make a long distance trip in an electric, especially in rural areas. Due to limited energy density in batteries, adding to range typically requires a lot of added weight which reduces performance.
• Battery Life. Try finding a 5+ year old, used Leaf or Tesla for sale with over 100k miles. *IF* you can find one, it likely has very limited battery capacity or someone has spent a lot of money replacing the battery. Older hybrids regularly run into the same problem, but many of those can operate without the electric motors. A 5 year old gas car with 100k miles? Most can be expected to go another 100k without any major hiccups.
• Battery technology. While there have been some improvements here, most rely on rare materials. This makes it very difficult to scale up production to all new cars.

I'll stick with an engine in my cars.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Darcane

I doubt there is any member of this board that will live long enough to see the death of the ICE, even just in new passenger cars.

I think of hybrids as a similar (but more complex) technology to EFI. It started with a few pioneers, gradually got more robust and widely used. Now it's hard to find anything that still uses a carburetor. Eventually, I believe hybrids will become the norm and virtually every new car is a hybrid (not necessarily electric though).

Pure electrics still have some significant hurdles to overcome before being widely accepted, and I'm not sure all of them can be. A few examples:

• Range anxiety. This is improving, but it still requires significant planning to make a long distance trip in an electric, especially in rural areas. Due to limited energy density in batteries, adding to range typically requires a lot of added weight which reduces performance.
• Battery Life. Try finding a 5+ year old, used Leaf or Tesla for sale with over 100k miles. *IF* you can find one, it likely has very limited battery capacity or someone has spent a lot of money replacing the battery. Older hybrids regularly run into the same problem, but many of those can operate without the electric motors. A 5 year old gas car with 100k miles? Most can be expected to go another 100k without any major hiccups.
• Battery technology. While there have been some improvements here, most rely on rare materials. This makes it very difficult to scale up production to all new cars.

I'll stick with an engine in my cars.

No offense intended but I find that to be a little short sighted. Some here in their 30's and early 40's could very conservatively live another 40 years. If you look at where we were 40 years ago with battery technology or just technology in general and how it increases exponentially every couple years now There's no reason to think we won't see the end of the ICE in passenger vehicles in 40 years.
An electric car in 1976 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar

[Darcane]

Originally Posted by Thor142

No offense intended but I find that to be a little short sighted. Some here in their 30's and early 40's could very conservatively live another 40 years. If you look at where we were 40 years ago with battery technology or just technology in general and how it increases exponentially every couple years now There's no reason to think we won't see the end of the ICE in passenger vehicles in 40 years.
An electric car in 1976 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar

None taken. But I was thinking of those in their teens and early 20's...

Electric cars have been around for about 180 years. This is not a "new" technology. 100 years ago, more than 1/3rd of the cars in America were electric. They died out because of many of the same problems that battery powered cars have today.

The CitiCar uses lead-acid batteries. So did the 1907 Detroit Electric. So does your brand new Camaro. They are used because lead is cheap and abundant. Lithium is neither. There are currently 90 million cars made every year. Do you really think this can be done with Li-ion batteries? That's what it takes to kill off the ICE.

Li-ion batteries have 2-4 times the energy density of lead-acid and have been around since the late 70's. This is hardly "exponential growth every couple years" in battery technology. Most of the added range is simply adding more batteries. Gasoline has 250 times the energy density of lead-acid batteries. This is why battery electric cars are so heavy, and the more range you try to add, the more weight they have to tote around.

I don't think there are leaps in battery technology that can overcome all the problems. I could be proven wrong, but even if I am, I seriously doubt it will happen in the next 80 years.

[Heavymetal454]

Let me say this. If the Tesla P85 can smoke the ZL1 I'd still buy the ZL1.

I've never rolled up to an electric car and said WOW! Does that run on 110?
Answer No kid. 220, 221. Whatever it takes!

[Number 3]

That van is an EV not a hybrid. The debate is whether the Volt is an EV, which its is for the first 50 Miles Or a hybrid which it is beyond 50 Miles.

[DGthe3]

I'd say its extremely unlikely that there will be a 'super hybrid' Camaro. That type of technology is little more than a gimmick to comply with regulations. For an equal investment put into a conventional powertrain, you could get a better performing car.

If the Camaro is going to get a hybrid system, its most likely going to be a mild belt-alternator-starter system. These systems are cheap to implement and add about a 10% boost to fuel economy. They are the best bang for the buck in electrification. Plus they add minimal weight so it doesn't bring down 'conventional' performance much. In fact, I'd be surprised if the 7th gen doesn't feature a mild hybrid system on at least the 4 cylinder versions. I'd even expect it on the V6s but maybe not the V8s.

Originally Posted by Thor142

No offense intended but I find that to be a little short sighted. Some here in their 30's and early 40's could very conservatively live another 40 years. If you look at where we were 40 years ago with battery technology or just technology in general and how it increases exponentially every couple years now There's no reason to think we won't see the end of the ICE in passenger vehicles in 40 years.
An electric car in 1976 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar

The charge density of Li-ion batteries is certainly a big improvement over lead-acid from 40 years ago. But what of the advancements made in the internal combustion engine in those same 40 years? Horsepower has tripled and fuel economy has doubled while harmful pollutants are now nearly non-existent in gasoline engines.

And as for the improvements in EVs ... most of it has been just throwing an enormous amount of battery capacity into the car. The 85 kW battery (made of relatively light lithium-ion cells) in the Tesla Model S weighs nearly as much as the entire CitiCar. Add a thousand pounds of lead-acid battery to that thing and you could give it a lot more power (quicker, more driveable) and still have a much longer range than 50 miles.

Originally Posted by Number 3

That van is an EV not a hybrid. The debate is whether the Volt is an EV, which its is for the first 50 Miles Or a hybrid which it is beyond 50 Miles.

The Volt is a hybrid at any speed, even when its parked. Its powertrain can use 2 difference sources of power. The usage mix of one to the other at any given moment is irrelevant. A car designed to run on hydrogen and hamster wheels would also a hybrid. Ditto if it had a multifuel jet turbine engine and rocket thrust from compressed air tanks. Still a hybrid.