Why does a ZL1 have to be supercharged

chuckclanton · 02-16-2016, 09:26 AM

So...I owned a 2013 ZL1. Found it of only average performance. Too heavy with unbalanced weight. Engine to complex and terrible gas millage.
would have preferred the Z28 engine. Owned a Dodge Viper in my track days(Michelin challenge series 2002-2006). 500 CI, 600HP, simple fuel system. So power does not have to be complex! I just don't see the point in supercharged engines other than for drag racing or dyno queens. All that being said, I find my 2016 1/SS really awesome for the price I paid. It will be on the track next month.

DenverTaco07 · 02-16-2016, 09:57 AM

Because RACECAR

But the answer is Cost.

Sure, they could do something different but selling a car to mass market HP rules any other specification. Just look at all the people that will refuse to buy a ZL1 if it doesn't have at least 1 more HP than a Hellcat - you can talk to them about power to weight ration until you're blue in the face, but if it doesn't have that HP number then they won't buy it.

So I think bang for the buck, you harden up internals and slap a SC on it. For people like me, it's perfect - for the racing enthusiast gearhead like you, you are drawn more to the LS7 type engines and it makes sense.

Bhobbs · 02-16-2016, 10:11 AM

People care about big horsepower numbers. Trying to explain why the Z/28 was more expensive when it had less power was almost impossible.

SpeedIsLife · 02-16-2016, 10:21 AM

It's a question about cost but also a question about durability and emissions.

The COPO Camaro ZL1 (ZL1 was the code name for the all aluminum 427ci monster big block under the hood) was THE top dog Camaro when it came to power and straight line speed..period. Dot. End of sentence.

To get the big power numbers (and performance) befitting the heritage of the ZL1 name you'd need either big cubes spinning very high with a much more radical cam than the production LS7..which isn't long term durability or emissions friendly.

Or go to forced induction on a smaller motor.

Team Corvette did develop a modernized version of the LS7 (we've never heard the real name, most call it the LT7) but they couldn't meet the power numbers they wanted and still remain legally compliant..thus the LT4 was developed. Some people cry about it being lazy or something..but it's what it is. GM did the best they could with the tools and rules they were given.

What the aftermarket can do isn't the same as what OE can do. Hell race LS7's like what is found in the Z/28.R produce over 600 crank HP but they're nowhere near street legal or will last 80,000+ miles without needing to be torn down and refreshed.

shaffe · 02-16-2016, 10:32 AM

This ^

All has to do with emissions and reliability now. 500+ HP N/A engines are going to be a thing of the past soon.

SpeedIsLife · 02-16-2016, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

This ^

All has to do with emissions and reliability now. 500+ HP N/A engines are going to be a thing of the past soon.

+1 on the comment of production 500+ HP n/a motors.

During the post reveal/pre-release launch interviews for the GT350 they were asked about how difficult it was getting the 5.2 Voodoo FPC motor to be compliant and all they said was "it was more difficult than normal".

Keep in mind that this is the team that got the 550 HP 5.4 motor and the 662 HP 5.8 motor through emissions..but the little n/a 5.2 was the hardest yet.

shaffe · 02-16-2016, 11:37 AM

Not only that, but if Team Corvette couldn't get it to make the power they wanted, what makes you think team Camaro could do it? For something like the ZL-1 it would need more than 500 HP

Plus the CTS-V is an amazing performance car, whats wrong with a Camaro that performs like that or better!

Bhobbs · 02-16-2016, 12:02 PM

Who knows what the Corvette team's power goals were. They could have been going for 600 hp out of the N/A engine.

shaffe · 02-16-2016, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Who knows what the Corvette team's power goals were. They could have been going for 600 hp out of the N/A engine.

They might have been but we will never know. We do know that 500+ N/A is tough especially with all the regulations.

But for a ZL-1, would 500 be enough, would 550? Hell the last gen had 580. When the competition has 707? Who knows if/what/when the GT500 will be packing.

Bhobbs · 02-16-2016, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

They might have been but we will never know. We do know that 500+ N/A is tough especially with all the regulations.

But for a ZL-1, would 500 be enough, would 550? Hell the last gen had 580. When the competition has 707? Who knows if/what/when the GT500 will be packing.

It depends on what GM wants to do. They could combine the ZL1 and Z/28 into a single car.

We all know the LT4 is going to be in a Camaro. It probably will take down the Hellcat but the GT500 is a big unknown. Ford is always a wildcard with their engines.

Jeffro19 · 02-16-2016, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe

They might have been but we will never know. We do know that 500+ N/A is tough especially with all the regulations.

But for a ZL-1, would 500 be enough, would 550? Hell the last gen had 580. When the competition has 707? Who knows if/what/when the GT500 will be packing.

My bet is the next hipo camaro will be the Z28 not the ZL1 just a guess, and follow the corvette going from the ZR1 to ZO6 and use the LT4 with 650hp. I would bet big money that we won't see any horsepower rating over 650hp. If we do I will be the first to admit I was wrong, and I hope I am.

SpeedIsLife · 02-16-2016, 02:22 PM

I think you'll find it's not GM/Chevy that is clamoring for our muscling the Hellcat by putting up over 700 HP...it's the fans.

My guess is GM/Chevy is using the mindset of doing more with less.

detltu · 02-16-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think you'll find it's not GM/Chevy that is clamoring for our muscling the Hellcat by putting up over 700 HP...it's the fans.

My guess is GM/Chevy is using the mindset of doing more with less.

Yeah, I don't think Chevy has any intention of going to war over hp numbers. 640-650 from the LT4 will be plenty to keep up with the Hellcat. GT500? We will see.

Bhobbs · 02-16-2016, 02:40 PM

I believe a GM spokesperson said they would not beat the Hellcat with the Camaro. The Camaro plays second fiddle to the Corvette and will be limited by that. The LT4 gets a 1.7 liter blower to fit under the hood of the Z06 and the Camaro will be stuck with it as well, even though it won't have the same clearance issues.

02-16-2016, 09:26 AM	#1
chuckclanton Drives: 2021 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Mesquite, Nv. Posts: 490	Why does a ZL1 have to be supercharged So...I owned a 2013 ZL1. Found it of only average performance. Too heavy with unbalanced weight. Engine to complex and terrible gas millage. would have preferred the Z28 engine. Owned a Dodge Viper in my track days(Michelin challenge series 2002-2006). 500 CI, 600HP, simple fuel system. So power does not have to be complex! I just don't see the point in supercharged engines other than for drag racing or dyno queens. All that being said, I find my 2016 1/SS really awesome for the price I paid. It will be on the track next month.

02-16-2016, 09:57 AM	#2
DenverTaco07 Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2017 Volt, 2013 Pilot Join Date: May 2014 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,274	Because RACECAR But the answer is Cost. Sure, they could do something different but selling a car to mass market HP rules any other specification. Just look at all the people that will refuse to buy a ZL1 if it doesn't have at least 1 more HP than a Hellcat - you can talk to them about power to weight ration until you're blue in the face, but if it doesn't have that HP number then they won't buy it. So I think bang for the buck, you harden up internals and slap a SC on it. For people like me, it's perfect - for the racing enthusiast gearhead like you, you are drawn more to the LS7 type engines and it makes sense. __________________ 2017 SS 1LE \| HBM \| Vortech V3-Si supercharger (620RWHP and 575ft lbs) \| PDR \| Black Bowties \| Illuminated Front Black Bowtie \| Illuminated Door Sills \| Smoked Tails \| vented seats mod

02-16-2016, 10:11 AM	#3
Bhobbs Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 6,990	People care about big horsepower numbers. Trying to explain why the Z/28 was more expensive when it had less power was almost impossible. __________________

02-16-2016, 12:02 PM	#8
Bhobbs Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 6,990	Who knows what the Corvette team's power goals were. They could have been going for 600 hp out of the N/A engine. __________________

02-16-2016, 02:40 PM	#14
Bhobbs Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 6,990	I believe a GM spokesperson said they would not beat the Hellcat with the Camaro. The Camaro plays second fiddle to the Corvette and will be limited by that. The LT4 gets a 1.7 liter blower to fit under the hood of the Z06 and the Camaro will be stuck with it as well, even though it won't have the same clearance issues. __________________

02-16-2016, 10:21 AM	#4
SpeedIsLife Drives: Current Camaro-less Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,241	It's a question about cost but also a question about durability and emissions. The COPO Camaro ZL1 (ZL1 was the code name for the all aluminum 427ci monster big block under the hood) was THE top dog Camaro when it came to power and straight line speed..period. Dot. End of sentence. To get the big power numbers (and performance) befitting the heritage of the ZL1 name you'd need either big cubes spinning very high with a much more radical cam than the production LS7..which isn't long term durability or emissions friendly. Or go to forced induction on a smaller motor. Team Corvette did develop a modernized version of the LS7 (we've never heard the real name, most call it the LT7) but they couldn't meet the power numbers they wanted and still remain legally compliant..thus the LT4 was developed. Some people cry about it being lazy or something..but it's what it is. GM did the best they could with the tools and rules they were given. What the aftermarket can do isn't the same as what OE can do. Hell race LS7's like what is found in the Z/28.R produce over 600 crank HP but they're nowhere near street legal or will last 80,000+ miles without needing to be torn down and refreshed.

02-16-2016, 02:22 PM	#12
SpeedIsLife Drives: Current Camaro-less Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,241	I think you'll find it's not GM/Chevy that is clamoring for our muscling the Hellcat by putting up over 700 HP...it's the fans. My guess is GM/Chevy is using the mindset of doing more with less.

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