[rcoe]

I am betting 500 is just going to be a starting number.

I would build the engine/fueling first. Maybe drop-ins, cam, heads and full LT4 fueling. Along with headers and full exhaust. And a good flex fuel tune.

This will get you a decent bump in power and set you up for safely adding a blower in the future.

[adamjwilson]

Originally Posted by db2022cs

My budget in my mind right now is 15k USD. This can go up if it means reliability. My GF will start to get pissed if it goes over 15k. I'm really just for now looking to get maybe 500 WHP that is reliable. There is a reputable shop that isn't to far from me that works on a lot of Camaro's and Corvettes.

What sort of fueling upgrades would I need and what is that looking at for cost? Injectors and do I need both high and low side fuel pumps? I think I read somewhere that the high is no longer needed. I have only just recently started going down this path and doing ACTUAL modifications to the car. In the past I have done things on cars like a piggyback tune which does add noticeable power but not an option on this platform.

I have seen a few stage 2 fueling kits that are about 2k which include a lot of the LT4 fueling components that can just directly replace what I currently have.

I would love to install the supercharger myself. The only thing that I have seen that looks scary is some of the supercharger kits require removing the crank pulley which just doesn't look fun. There is a kit that is fully belt driven that I mentioned in my first post and looks to be the least intrusive supercharger. Also I suppose, with modifications, always want more, which supercharger will allow for more boost without a retrofit of something else? Still trying to learn as much as I can about this.

Start with the fueling aspect as that will help with your build down the road. The LT4 fueling stuff is crazy expensive right now, so talk to the guys at TooHigh PSI about port injection plates and controller. Weigh those costs against the LT4 HP fuel pump, LT4 injectors, and some LP fueling either by DSX aux kit or JMS voltage booster. Flex fuel kit would be high on my list. Running E is a no brainer.
Talk to Ted over at Janetty as his brawler packages are pretty good, if you don't want to do any work yourself. Sounds like you are in the planning stage, so make plenty of calls and talk to some of the experts.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by db2022cs

I would love to install the supercharger myself. The only thing that I have seen that looks scary is some of the supercharger kits require removing the crank pulley which just doesn't look fun. There is a kit that is fully belt driven that I mentioned in my first post and looks to be the least intrusive supercharger. Also I suppose, with modifications, always want more, which supercharger will allow for more boost without a retrofit of something else? Still trying to learn as much as I can about this.

Yeah, the crank pulley is a total PITA, get a 5 foot breaker bar and/or Superman (plus heat from a torch) to get that thing loose, and then tightened again.

By far for me that is the worst part of the procharger install. You dont have to pull the balancer, but you do have to sandwich another pulley between the (new) bolt and the stock balancer. Not too bad other than that.

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Reliable power can be had "If" you upgrade fuel system and run Ethanol.

Non-Reliable power can be had "If" you just want to slap a supercharger on, run pump gas on stock fuel system.

Here is the rub. 93 octane and boost doesn't bode very well for a 11.5-11.8:1 compression motor. Yeah some will say you can make 550-575whp on a dyno with that setup and it will on a cooled down dyno pull. The problem is the dyno is not the street. Your realistic power on the street will be lower 500-520whp range because timing will need to be pulled at very conservative IAT's to keep detonation at bay.

The solution for consistent real-world power is octane. Meth or E are good solutions...I prefer Ethanol on a stock piston LT1 motor because basic meth kits are not great for distribution. All it takes is to have one cylinder not getting the same amount of meth as the others and boom. And it doesn't take much because meth systems seem to work great on LT4's and other forged piston motors. It's just the LT1 has a very low tolerance for detonation and high cylinder temps. I guess one way to ensure all cylinders are getting enough meth is to run a richer AFR. I would tune for .78-.80 if you decided to go that route. Don't try to run the DI system .90 and use the meth to get the AFR to .83. Probably speaking greek but you might find this info useful down the road at some point.

All of this right here.

I should probably mention that if you are going to add boost you need to step down the plugs to heat range 6's assuming you are running higher 500's wheel HP range. If you ever step into the 600's in wheel HP range then you need to run 7's as changing our plugs to a step colder over the OE heat range 5's help remove as much as 100* C from the combustion chamber.

Dialing the fuel in the fuel in right, and having the right plugs for your configuration as well for a higher compression motor like the LT1 is very important.

[KingLT1]

^Spot on... I would with the 7's on a stock compression LT1!! That is what I have been running ever since installing the Whipple back in 2019.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

All of this right here.

I should probably mention that if you are going to add boost you need to step down the plugs to heat range 6's assuming you are running higher 500's wheel HP range. If you ever step into the 600's in wheel HP range then you need to run 7's as changing our plugs to a step colder over the OE heat range 5's help remove as much as 100* C from the combustion chamber.

Dialing the fuel in the fuel in right, and having the right plugs for your configuration as well for a higher compression motor like the LT1 is very important.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

^Spot on... I would with the 7's on a stock compression LT1!! That is what I have been running ever since installing the Whipple back in 2019.

NGK 6510 FTW

[ZLRob]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

NGK 6510 FTW

I actually insist on 95605 NGK's for boosted boys. I love PSPE electrode plug designs.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZLRob

I actually insist on 95605 NGK's for boosted boys. I love PSPE electrode plug designs.

Cool, I’ll check those out next time around.

[toohighpsi]

Simplest solution to make reliable power? - what Laynlo (Greg) has in his 22 SS.
I'm still dumbfounded how simple and fast that car is:

Used TVS 2300 ($3500)
95mm throttle body ($200?)
Port Injection ($2500)
E85
Boost a pump ($500?)
Rotofab ($500?)
All else stock

Car makes 707 RWHP and backs up that number with a 9.80s @142.

Back it down to 650 RWHP and you don't need the:
95mm Throttle Body, Rotofab, or Boost a Pump making for less cost and an fairly easy garage install with about 6K in parts.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Simplest solution to make reliable power? - what Laynlo (Greg) has in his 22 SS.
I'm still dumbfounded how simple and fast that car is:

Used TVS 2300 ($3500)
95mm throttle body ($200?)
Port Injection ($2500)
E85
Boost a pump ($500?)
Rotofab ($500?)
All else stock

Car makes 707 RWHP and backs up that number with a 9.80s @142.

Back it down to 650 RWHP and you don't need the:
95mm Throttle Body, Rotofab, or Boost a Pump making for less cost and an fairly easy garage install with about 6K in parts.

Ive been wondering if the smaller 2300 works better for this use case compared to a 2650 or 2.9/3.0. Sounds like the bigger blowers make great power at the top end, but sacrifice a little at the bottom end?

In other words, is there a case where smaller is better?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Oh I think you could do 570 on stock headers. The issue is it won't be repeatable performance. 8psi on 93 will have the IAT's consistently up in the range(140-150) where you have to pull timing to keep knock at bay.

I like both the stock headers and CA front cat delete OR LT 1 and 7/8 with cats (removes primary and secondary stock cats). Problem being CA has been out of business for years.

Was the above with the basic intercooler? I have the stage II from the get go and if I was not so lazy probably would put the race unit in (removes the front crash bar).

[oldman]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Option two is a what you described, getting a reasonably easy to install supercharger kit, PD or centrifugal, slap it on, then get a proper tune from an experienced tuner. As King said, you will be making the same 540-570 rwhp but running on the ragged edge without more octane (ethanol or methanol), and longevity is unlikely with that setup.

I'd still go for a LT4 fuel system and either front cat delete or LT, getting more fuel in in a shorter window and removing pumping losses are good things for power and reliability.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Option three, you can obtain roughly the same power level with NA upgrades (fueling, big cam, heads, LT headers, intake, tune), without running any boost, which, at least as much I understand it, means you can keep your LT1 bottom end and still stay safe.

back in the day, Pray and I were both talking about this, I was going to build a stroker LT1, Pray had a cam, heads, Procharger package, I ended buying this FI setup while Pray went on to build some really fast NA stock short block stuff. I'm speculating that Pray felt the weight, heat, expense and complexity just was not worth it for guys that wanted to go fast for cheap both on the street and track.

My car is more of cars and coffee show car now, and the supercharger is mostly eye candy ( I will probably go for a compete pro-street look with drag pack, no hood, Holley Hi-Ram, polished supercharger, secondary meth injection (no E85 in Hawaii)), but to my mind Pray's NA setups for fast reliable and cheap are hard to beat...

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Option four, the one I took, is the most expensive (we're talking ZL1 money or slightly more), but it gives you everything in the end: have a competent shop 1) upgrade your fuel system plus add flex fueling, 2) strengthen the bottom end of your LT1, and 3) add a cam, heads (maybe), intake, LT headers and/or forced induction for much more than stock ZL1 power. My car is rock solid, the fuel system isn't struggling, WOT injector pulse width is at a safe 5.3-5.4 ms, target and actual lambda at 0.82-0.83. And, I can use ethanol to run the engine cooler and make extra power. The car made 735rwhp on the dyno and is very consistent on the street. In terms of power, I have made it to the point where I don't want more, no decent streetable tires can hold significantly more than what I have without big compromises, and the car is already enough of a freaking monster when pushed hard.

Same here

Excellent advice and post.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by oldman

Same here

Excellent advice and post.

Thank you Your car must be a snarling, scary monster, too, just the way it should be Show car or not, I'm sure you get on it time to time and enjoy the drive properly.

Too bad you guys don't have corn juice in Hawaii... I never thought I was missing anything without E85, but now that I can run it, there is a huge difference and I'd hate to go back to just 93.

Also, the real credits for my build must go to Jannetty Racing, they installed and tuned my setup, because I'm simply nowhere near the level of competence this requires not to fubar it completely.