Reliable power from the SS
 

Yes, I know the ZL1 is the correct answer. Unless I can find an amazing deal within the next 6 months to trade in my 2SS 1LE and get into a ZL1, I want to look at making a bit more power. I have been looking at going the forced induction route with the ECS Novi 1500 Kit. This kit actual looks like something I can do with a buddy over the weekend and then take it to a proper tuner to get it dialed in. I don't want to make insane power, I just want to make a bit more and I also want it reliable. I drive my car a lot, about 20k miles a year. I am very vigilant with oil changes and I maintain my vehicles pretty well.

They have several options I see for boost and I will most likely just go with the conservative low level 8psi which should give me a nice boost in power. Other than that, my car is completely stock in the engine bay. I enjoy how the car looks so I haven't touched much on the outside.

Any opinions on if this is a good route for someone that wants reliable power increase with the miles I put on the car? TIA.

Procharger stage II intercooler boost is 7 PSI, I personally think that is my dependable limit. Defined by me as 50% chance to hit 100k miles. So 7 PSI, but boost is an addiction and what is a PSI here are there. I'd upgrade the injectors and pump. Don't fool yourself boosted cars don't fail in general because of oil issues, they fail because of heat and heat tolerance. so things like autox and road racing is a lot harder on boosted cars. drag racing can fail things like drive and axle shafts. Since this discussion is all shades of grey, I you want reliability and that would me less boost is better, for more power get rid of pumping losses by doing LT headers or front cat delete. This will actually lower you boost a little (boost is a measurement of restriction).

So 7 PSI kit, headers, LT4 pump and injectors, 6.5 actual PSI never open the hood.

Can more boost be done for less money? Sure but there is a hit on reliability, GM the guys that have to offer a warranty did a whole lot to this engine for 650 reliable HP, so we all know what GM thinks.

Reliable power can be had "If" you upgrade fuel system and run Ethanol.

Non-Reliable power can be had "If" you just want to slap a supercharger on, run pump gas on stock fuel system.

Here is the rub. 93 octane and boost doesn't bode very well for a 11.5-11.8:1 compression motor. Yeah some will say you can make 550-575whp on a dyno with that setup and it will on a cooled down dyno pull. The problem is the dyno is not the street. Your realistic power on the street will be lower 500-520whp range because timing will need to be pulled at very conservative IAT's to keep detonation at bay.

The solution for consistent real-world power is octane. Meth or E are good solutions...I prefer Ethanol on a stock piston LT1 motor because basic meth kits are not great for distribution. All it takes is to have one cylinder not getting the same amount of meth as the others and boom. And it doesn't take much because meth systems seem to work great on LT4's and other forged piston motors. It's just the LT1 has a very low tolerance for detonation and high cylinder temps. I guess one way to ensure all cylinders are getting enough meth is to run a richer AFR. I would tune for .78-.80 if you decided to go that route. Don't try to run the DI system .90 and use the meth to get the AFR to .83. Probably speaking greek but you might find this info useful down the road at some point. :)

With a centri... psi is relative to rpm... moreso than a PD. 8 psi at 6500 rpm is going to go to 4-5 psi after the shift. To get 8 psi average, you'll have to push about 10 psi max...

And you might skate by at 5 or 6 average psi on the stock fuel system, but i wouldnt. Def not 8 or 10 psi average. I was there once and lucky i didnt melt things down.

Plus what folks said above. Lots of threads on this kind of thing. Recent ones too.

I ran 6.5 psi on stock fuel system procharger with procharger tune 17degs on top end for a while. Put the smackdown on helcats. form any speed roll, a dig forghetaboutit. 3 car lengths almost from the start. better put at least a 5w oil in though that ow is piss water
iats would be about or slightly below ambient. on the hit about 135.

Say LT headers what PSI do you see for 570 WHP and 520 HP?

Ehhhh.... no. I ran a 11.9 on the procharger canned tune. Guess you had better results. But i cant recommend doing that.

You have options, and the "correct" answer is not necessarily the ZL1, don't listen to the top trim snob crowd.

The first very safe option is definitely getting a ZL1 (6th gen of course) and never touching it. You can have powertrain warranty and the best Camaro trim GM ever made. The problem with that, however, is that you apparently have a strong enough desire for "moar powa' babeh" with a 2SS 1LE that you are exploring forced induction, and a stock ZL1 at 540-570 rwhp is unlikely to satisfy that need, you will eventually want more.

Option two is a what you described, getting a reasonably easy to install supercharger kit, PD or centrifugal, slap it on, then get a proper tune from an experienced tuner. As King said, you will be making the same 540-570 rwhp but running on the ragged edge without more octane (ethanol or methanol), and longevity is unlikely with that setup.

Option three, you can obtain roughly the same power level with NA upgrades (fueling, big cam, heads, LT headers, intake, tune), without running any boost, which, at least as much I understand it, means you can keep your LT1 bottom end and still stay safe.

Option four, the one I took, is the most expensive (we're talking ZL1 money or slightly more), but it gives you everything in the end: have a competent shop 1) upgrade your fuel system plus add flex fueling, 2) strengthen the bottom end of your LT1, and 3) add a cam, heads (maybe), intake, LT headers and/or forced induction for much more than stock ZL1 power. My car is rock solid, the fuel system isn't struggling, WOT injector pulse width is at a safe 5.3-5.4 ms, target and actual lambda at 0.82-0.83. And, I can use ethanol to run the engine cooler and make extra power. The car made 735rwhp on the dyno and is very consistent on the street. In terms of power, I have made it to the point where I don't want more, no decent streetable tires can hold significantly more than what I have without big compromises, and the car is already enough of a freaking monster when pushed hard.

In the end, it's your money and your car. Listen to King(LT1) and others here who have a boatload of experience, and make your best move. Good luck :thumbsup:

Im just stating my real world experience. I did get a pro tune later and it ran a lot better on the bottom end but same on top.

What is your budget first? Lots of good responses above from real world experiences. KingLT1 is speaking the gospil and the safest route for your choice you posted.
All of these guys have been down this rabbit hole, so it it really depends on your budget and HP goals. Upgrading your fuel system is a must for longevity.

Oh I think you could do 570 on stock headers. The issue is it won't be repeatable performance. 8psi on 93 will have the IAT's consistently up in the range(140-150) where you have to pull timing to keep knock at bay.

I personally seen it on a car that I tuned. It was a P1x, lt4 fuel system, cat deletes setup, making 600whp on 93 @ 9psi, but it has to be cold. Soon as you get out driving and the car is up to temp IAT will be pushing 140+ doing a hard pull by 5th gear in a A8 and pulling timing. I actually had to pull more timing from it after the guy bought it. It was knocking on 13 degrees of timing.

Fast forward, same car now has Heads/Cam/Headers/Rods/Piston and larger lower making 12psi. I don't have it pulling any timing on E50 until 170 degrees and it's happy. The P1x is pushing 168 degree IAT's after a hard pull. Logs indicate it's making 820whp range. On 93 it would probably be a 100-120whp less. Would definitely need meth for more octane and cooling if limited to pump gas.

I did the Procharger P1x with lt4 fueling and the jms booster. Run up to e50. It feels pretty powerful and it does real good from a roll. Pretty slow 60ft so if you want that just get the zl1 or the magnuson 2650. Procharger gets some temp while wot but comes right back down

My budget in my mind right now is 15k USD. This can go up if it means reliability. My GF will start to get pissed if it goes over 15k. I'm really just for now looking to get maybe 500 WHP that is reliable. There is a reputable shop that isn't to far from me that works on a lot of Camaro's and Corvettes.

What sort of fueling upgrades would I need and what is that looking at for cost? Injectors and do I need both high and low side fuel pumps? I think I read somewhere that the high is no longer needed. I have only just recently started going down this path and doing ACTUAL modifications to the car. In the past I have done things on cars like a piggyback tune which does add noticeable power but not an option on this platform.

I have seen a few stage 2 fueling kits that are about 2k which include a lot of the LT4 fueling components that can just directly replace what I currently have.

I would love to install the supercharger myself. The only thing that I have seen that looks scary is some of the supercharger kits require removing the crank pulley which just doesn't look fun. There is a kit that is fully belt driven that I mentioned in my first post and looks to be the least intrusive supercharger. Also I suppose, with modifications, always want more, which supercharger will allow for more boost without a retrofit of something else? Still trying to learn as much as I can about this.

[QUOTE=db2022cs]My budget in my mind right now is 15k USD.

Funny I was loking at all the paperwork from the work I had done and it was just below 15k and I'm doing pretty good power. As you can see in my signature I have taken advice from a few guys here on the forum and they have me in a pretty good place. Either way there is that extra good feeling you get from building it like you want it and not buying the canned package.

That's my 2 cents............