[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by Moreno Motorsports

To those wondering about the .5" drop, we are working on machined aluminum rear adjustable lower control arms with the ability to lower ride height in the rear by .5" and adjust rear camber to go along with the camber plates. this will give you guys a way to lower ride height .5" all around without changing spring rate stay tuned for that

Any projection on when these will be available? Want to lower my car all around to maintain balance.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

They both have their advantages. The Multimatic's make it fairly easy to switch front camber at the track and only mess up the toe a little bit, whereas the camber plates need an alignment rack to get it right and symmetrical.

Cem, when you do your rack alignment with the Multimatic's, you'll have to choose when you want your toe to be correct, track or street setting. Moving from track to street setting will increase toe-out a smidge.

hmm, good info thanks!
I wonder how much of a toe we're talking about if it's only a small amount of toe (say for .05 degree), I would simply have it setup my track camber to -3.0 and have the toe set at 0 so that in street it wouldn't be too much and I wouldn't sacrifice the longevity.

It's too bad, it's not the opposite :/ Like having 0 toe for street and a bit toe out with the track setting. It would be just perfect

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by glamcem

hmm, good info thanks!
I wonder how much of a toe we're talking about if it's only a small amount of toe (say for .05 degree), I would simply have it setup my track camber to -3.0 and have the toe set at 0 so that in street it wouldn't be too much and I wouldn't sacrifice the longevity.

It's too bad, it's not the opposite :/ Like having 0 toe for street and a bit toe out with the track setting. It would be just perfect

You know what, I was mistaken with the direction, sorry about that. With the steering rack on the front side of the axle, pulling the struts inboard (more negative camber) would cause toe-out, so you're in luck. Going to street alignment would increase toe-in.

Where the tie-rods are makes all the difference!

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You know what, I was mistaken with the direction, sorry about that. With the steering rack on the front side of the axle, pulling the struts inboard (more negative camber) would cause toe-out, so you're in luck. Going to street alignment would increase toe-in.

Where the tie-rods are makes all the difference!

No problem. It's good to hear so it's basically best of both worlds I get more toe out and camber when I need it the most and switch back to street setting when I get home or maybe after the track season is over as I don't drive the car daily that much

[Eric SS]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You know what, I was mistaken with the direction, sorry about that. With the steering rack on the front side of the axle, pulling the struts inboard (more negative camber) would cause toe-out, so you're in luck. Going to street alignment would increase toe-in.

Where the tie-rods are makes all the difference!

Originally Posted by glamcem

hmm, good info thanks!
I wonder how much of a toe we're talking about if it's only a small amount of toe (say for .05 degree), I would simply have it setup my track camber to -3.0 and have the toe set at 0 so that in street it wouldn't be too much and I wouldn't sacrifice the longevity.

It's too bad, it's not the opposite :/ Like having 0 toe for street and a bit toe out with the track setting. It would be just perfect

On post 9 on this thread I asked him if he checked toe for street and track alignment just to see how much it changed between the 2 but I don't see an answer yet.

Like mentioned the toe should go out more for track and come in a little for street. I'd like to set zero toe for track and see what that makes it when I bring the camber back down to a street level. Hopefully it doesn't affect it to dramatically. I'll check in the next few days at home with my toe plates. My new strut arrived today so hopefully I'll have the install done by the end of the day and hopefully I'll be able to at least ballpark the toe differences between the 2 settings.

[tx6g1le]

Originally Posted by Eric SS

On post 9 on this thread I asked him if he checked toe for street and track alignment just to see how much it changed between the 2 but I don't see an answer yet.

Like mentioned the toe should go out more for track and come in a little for street. I'd like to set zero toe for track and see what that makes it when I bring the camber back down to a street level. Hopefully it doesn't affect it to dramatically. I'll check in the next few days at home with my toe plates. My new strut arrived today so hopefully I'll have the install done by the end of the day and hopefully I'll be able to at least ballpark the toe differences between the 2 settings.

Eric, I had the toe set to 0 in the front and minimally positive rear toe for my track event this weekend. It obviously was a check and balance game as we adjusted camber. My idea was to check one metric at a time and see what a "quick" adjustment does on the alignment rack when changed on the fly. I'll update you to see what the toe does once dialed back to the 2's.

SO! After a great track day with other local Camaro enthusiasts, I'm very impressed with the drivability on the Moreno Motorsports camber plates. The plates are simple enough to adjust with the car in the air and hand tools. I admittedly overdid the camber at 3.3 but I enjoyed the oversteer on track. I agree the sweet spot may be high 2's and I'm headed back to the alignment rack tomorrow to tone it down. I'll find out what the toe does once we begin to tone down the camber settings and update the group.

Overall, the turn in (as expected) was improved dramatically. I'm not a great driver but as many sessions as I've had this year at MSR this was my favorite.

Metrics:
Front tires - 295/30r20 Michelin Sport Cup 2s
Camber - 3.3
PSI - Cold 29; Hot 37
Ambient temp - 101 F
Tire Temps after 2nd session - LF 184<186<192; RF 186>181>179

Here is my video from the event:

[tx6g1le]

Originally Posted by Eric SS

On post 9 on this thread I asked him if he checked toe for street and track alignment just to see how much it changed between the 2 but I don't see an answer yet.

Like mentioned the toe should go out more for track and come in a little for street. I'd like to set zero toe for track and see what that makes it when I bring the camber back down to a street level. Hopefully it doesn't affect it to dramatically. I'll check in the next few days at home with my toe plates. My new strut arrived today so hopefully I'll have the install done by the end of the day and hopefully I'll be able to at least ballpark the toe differences between the 2 settings.

Eric, took some notes on the alignment rack today I wanted to share.

Front camber was 3.3 with -1/32in. of toe at first. After ONLY changing the camber to 2.8 it caused the toe angle to go to 1/16in. After going back and forth with the crash bolts and the camber plates I decided I won't be changing camber on the fly due to the change in toe angle. I hope this helps.

[Eric SS]

Originally Posted by tx6g1le

Eric, took some notes on the alignment rack today I wanted to share.

Front camber was 3.3 with -1/32in. of toe at first. After ONLY changing the camber to 2.8 it caused the toe angle to go to 1/16in. After going back and forth with the crash bolts and the camber plates I decided I won't be changing camber on the fly due to the change in toe angle. I hope this helps.

Thank you that does help. Ouch. Looks like we'll have a ton of toe in between street and track setting if we adjust the full 2 degrees at the camber plate. Not the fault of the camber plate, just the geometry of the car. I'm thinking of checking it out tonight as well when I get home with my toe plates. I currently have 1.5 degrees on the camber plates with zero toe. I'll back it off to zero and check again.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by tx6g1le

Eric, took some notes on the alignment rack today I wanted to share.

Front camber was 3.3 with -1/32in. of toe at first. After ONLY changing the camber to 2.8 it caused the toe angle to go to 1/16in. After going back and forth with the crash bolts and the camber plates I decided I won't be changing camber on the fly due to the change in toe angle. I hope this helps.

Thanks for that, and also thanks for the tire temp data. Now we know where the limit is with regards to front camber.

[seanblurr]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Thanks for that, and also thanks for the tire temp data. Now we know where the limit is with regards to front camber.

What exactly do you mean limit? In my rather rudimentary understanding of time temp data, those temps would indicate that he has yet to reach a camber limit, right? The outside temps are still the hottest, meaning he still could use some more. I might even go as fare as to say that you may be a tad under inflated, like 0.5 psi.

[Tomiboy]

I thought the insides were the hottest? Maybe I'm not understanding his method of measuring temp?

[seanblurr]

I understand it to mean which ever number is the greater than sign is more lateral. Inner<middle<outside, or outide>middle>inner.

[Eric SS]

Ok I did a little playing around too. I don't know exactly what my camber was at the knuckle but I think it was about 1.5*. I then added an additional 1.5* on the camber plates and set my toe to dead nuts zero using my toe plates. I then put the camber plates back to zero so the only camber was at the knuckle. I then measured toe at 3/16" in. That's not too terrible I guess. I can possibly live with that. That said, it's really easy to change the toe on this car so I might just try and mark the tie rods so I know how much to move them after a track day.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by seanblurr

What exactly do you mean limit? In my rather rudimentary understanding of time temp data, those temps would indicate that he has yet to reach a camber limit, right? The outside temps are still the hottest, meaning he still could use some more. I might even go as fare as to say that you may be a tad under inflated, like 0.5 psi.

I also read his measurements as: Outside/Middle/Inside, then Inside/Middle/Outside. This is corroborated by his comment that he overdid the camber and he feels that a high 2.x degree would be better. Perhaps he can clarify that.

Hot 37 PSI is, IMO, the limit with the Supercar 3's, but given he's running Michelin's that throws a variable in there.