[LostM]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Also, I mean comparably equipped. I do not think the base 500 is comparably equipped to a ZL1 at $73K, so that is not necessarily the right MSRP number to start with.

66,600 for ZL1 to equal base GT500, and thats with $1500 in allowances.

Like i said, its not that far off. If 8k makes or breaks you financially, you shouldnt be buying either one

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by joe944

I agree that comparing OTD prices can throw off a comparison. I prefer looking at just the sale price of the vehicle before you add all of those costs on, which are going to differ vastly due to local laws.

You're never going to get a 100% fair comparison between two vehicle purchases, but I still think that looking at the price paid means more than what the MSRP is listed at.

I'm no fanboy one way or the other. I originally wanted a GT350 and ended up in a ZL1 because I could not get a GT350 for the same price.

MSRP is just not a very useful tool for cars like the Shelby's that consistently sell for WAY more, especially where I live, other than knowing exactly how much you got bent over for.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

When comparing for purchase reasons, sales price is all that matters for sure.

When comparing two competing companies and their offerings, objectively, MSRP is the only valid value to use.

It's the same reason we use factory condition 'stock' vehicles as a standard for comparisons.

Originally Posted by joe944

Can't argue with that. I was mainly referring to purchase reasons, since at least some of us here actually buy these cars.

Agree with the above ^ I believe we are on same page now. Evderything is just so different state to state that is why I prefer MSRP.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So say somebody traded in a 5th Gen ZL1 for their 6th gen ZL1, then technically they only may have only ACTUALLY paid 30K for it... doesn't make for a fair comparison

Technically, they paid whatever they paid for the 5th Gen PLUS whatever they added onto the price of the trade in. So if they paid $53K for the 5th Gen, and then traded it in with $30K on top, they technically paid $83K. That is how money works my friend.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by LostM

66,600 for ZL1 to equal base GT500, and thats with $1500 in allowances.

Like i said, its not that far off. If 8k makes or breaks you financially, you shouldnt be buying either one

Thank you. $8K is close enough to not sway my purchase decision. Now to see overall performance, and hopefully a manual option in coming MY's. I dont care much for 1/4 mile, but acceleration is still important. Interested in how the 500 base compares on track.

One thing I dont understand. IF the base is faster on track than the ZL1, then it is faster than the GT350R too. Why on earth would anyone buy an R, when they can smoke one in a 500 for the exact same price?

I wonder if the track results arent closer to this:

GT350<Base 500<GT350R<ZL1<ZL1 1LE<CFTP 500.

I really just listed them based on MSRP(roughly), and assuming the price is set based on performance since the 2 Ford cars are sold on the same floor at the same time.

I really am just trying to see how they fit considering MSRP. Sure the GT350 will feel better on track without the huge blower, and it has a manual transmission, but the buyers of these cars wont be swayed by that I dont think.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by LostM

How so? I get it, in fantasy land. multiple people have already ran faster than the C8.. regular people.. expect more of the same

Because you are a newbie to all this and don't understand how racing two cars work. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain anything to you because you either will not understand it, or you will refuse to understand it, or you'll make a silly troll comment to hide your lack of understanding. But let's just say that when these cars are all tested together, the C8 just might do better than you expect. And the GT500, just might not pull off the 10.6 that you guys think it runs.

Originally Posted by LostM

But back to the point, whats going to happen to when the 1le lines up next to a GT500? spolier alert, GM gets smoked

Ok. Just don't go putting your money on it.

Originally Posted by LostM

again, GM DIDNT do it for cheaper. they didnt do it at all.

Objective data? you mean like us knowing it set the gratton lap record months ago? ya know there is video of it and timed yes, pretty sure its going to eat the 1l3's lunch, with no problem



the track is uphill actually, but thats a good attempt at excuses




if you can afford 65k, you can afford 73k. if not, you probably cant afford 65k either, realistically.

You guys keep saying GM did it for less $.. heres the problem, THEY DIDNT. if it cant beat the GT500, then they didnt "do it"

I dont know why you are so mad or unwilling to accept it. newer cars nearly always outperform older ones. Expecting the GT500 to NOT decimiate (kill off) the Camaro was an error on your part.

You have absolutely no idea WTF you're talking about. And I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously.

[LostM]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

'Nice try' what? I've never been to the track, just based on the video it looks flat to me up to 1/4 mile. If you have data to suggest otherwise you can present it. Although it's not going to make a difference. Everyone agrees the GT500 is faster in a straight line.

I told you where to find it

You are not going to find any GT500 for 73K OTD. You can get a ZL1 for 65K OTD. Minimum OTD price for a GT500 is 80K. And that is for something that will likely not out handle the base ZL1. You would need to step up to the 95K MSRP track pack GT500 to out handle the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE.



80k is optioned. nice try
It will 100% outhandle the base zl1. prove me wrong




No, I do not consider 1/4 mile to be deciding parameter for performance. Although I do agree with you that Ford, 5 years late, and with lots of tuning to the car, did make it a great performer.

if it kills figuratively and literally, the competiton, its not late. its on time

But, it cost them more to match the ZL1's performance in overall performance as they are working with an inferior chassis.

inferior but still beats it? sounds a bit, illogical. it cant do both, and we know it beats it

And it's also going to cost consumers more. Of course there are some consumers that only care about high HP numbers and 1/4 mile. So good for them. Here we are comparing overall performance and value though.

OK, performance and value. Show me the 10.6 second 1/4 mile cars that seat 4 and fast around tracks for under 73k

ill wait

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Because you are a newbie to all this and don't understand how racing two cars work. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain anything to you because you either will not understand it, or you will refuse to understand it, or you'll make a silly troll comment to hide your lack of understanding. But let's just say that when these cars are all tested together, the C8 just might do better than you expect. And the GT500, just might not pull off the 10.6 that you guys think it runs.


Ok. Just don't go putting your money on it.

You have absolutely no idea WTF you're talking about. And I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously.

I think the guys a troll, he claims to have got one of the first allocations for 2000 under MSRP.

[LostM]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Thank you. $8K is close enough to not sway my purchase decision. Now to see overall performance, and hopefully a manual option in coming MY's. I dont care much for 1/4 mile, but acceleration is still important. Interested in how the 500 base compares on track.


I hear you. have you driven any DCT? Lots of people at the tracktour said the same thing, and there faces after getting out of the cars was priceless. it offers something neither an auto or manual can do. its just different. Id suggest driving one



One thing I dont understand. IF the base is faster on track than the ZL1, then it is faster than the GT350R too. Why on earth would anyone buy an R, when they can smoke one in a 500 for the exact same price?


for the reasons you said, a manual. Ford has stated this is there stance. If you want peak performance, 500. if you want stellar performance in a manual, 350

I wonder if the track results arent closer to this:

GT350<Base 500<GT350R<ZL1<ZL1 1LE<CFTP 500.


probably this:

GT350<GT350R<ZL1Base <500<ZL1 1LE<CFTP 500






I really just listed them based on MSRP(roughly), and assuming the price is set based on performance since the 2 Ford cars are sold on the same floor at the same time.

I really am just trying to see how they fit considering MSRP. Sure the GT350 will feel better on track without the huge blower, and it has a manual transmission, but the buyers of these cars wont be swayed by that I dont think.

I think at the price range, they are all likely equal until you decide what YOU want to drive, manual vs auto vs dct, and then exactly how much actual track time you do. and then narrow down..not considering appearance of course, that is always #1

[LostM]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Because you are a newbie to all this and don't understand how racing two cars work. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain anything to you because you either will not understand it, or you will refuse to understand it, or you'll make a silly troll comment to hide your lack of understanding. But let's just say that when these cars are all tested together, the C8 just might do better than you expect. And the GT500, just might not pull off the 10.6 that you guys think it runs.


Ok. Just don't go putting your money on it.

You have absolutely no idea WTF you're talking about. And I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously.

I promise you ive done more racing in 1 year than you have your whole life.

would you like to place a bet? If the c8 beats gt500 same day same track. i leave. if the c8 loses, you leave this section, never to return

good try

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by LostM

I promise you ive done more racing in 1 year than you have your whole life.

Then you should know better.

Originally Posted by LostM

would you like to place a bet? If the c8 beats gt500 same day same track. i leave. if the c8 loses, you leave this section, never to return

First off, you have a snowflake's chance in hell of dictating the terms of anything to me here on this forum. Second, I decline. The only person and things I bet on is myself and stuff I own.

But entertain me this...what do you drive? Post a pic. Your reply will show if you're here to troll. Since you're soo up the GT500's ass I would assume that you have a Mustang Ecoboost, a S197 GT, or a base 15-17 GT...or better yet you have something completely unrelated to any of these cars. I'd like to see how far off I am.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by LostM

I think at the price range, they are all likely equal until you decide what YOU want to drive, manual vs auto vs dct, and then exactly how much actual track time you do. and then narrow down..not considering appearance of course, that is always #1

It may play out on track as you said, thats how I think it is likely to play out also. As for 350R v 500, I guess I can try and see someone make that decision. LOL, I just can't stop thinking of someone in a showroom with both cars same price, right next to each other, just test driven both, gonna choose the 350R for the manual?!?! I just cant see it happening in real life.

I just sold my M3 with a DCT. Loved the car, the motor really. Changed the Rod Bearings and everything, intending to keep it long term, and just got bored with the DCT. I can't shake the itch for a third pedal, nothing against the DCT as its the best 2 pedal driving experience I have ever had. Both would do just fine one day lol.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by LostM

I promise you ive done more racing in 1 year than you have your whole life.

would you like to place a bet? If the c8 beats gt500 same day same track. i leave. if the c8 loses, you leave this section, never to return

good try

C8 Stingray is not the track car. It is track capable, but it is not the product that is intended for frequent track drivers. That would be C8 Grand Sport and C8 Z06, neither of which has been released yet. I’d make the same bet with you when the first one of those two breaks surface.

[Evansa22]

He's a professional troll, also its $73,999k. Its gonna be very few and far between on gt500's at msrp. Went into the dealership the other day and they wanted 10k adm on a 350. I'm with some of you guys, what you pay for the vehicle, not otd price, and to an extent msrp. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...6617/overview/
$65,700 msrp, $58,700 with incentives. Say $62k paid for the vehicle if you dont get all discounts.
A base gt500 with options MSRP's at 75-76k? Most People are going to pay minimum 80k+ for it. That's based on my experience with ford dealerships. Real life numbers, I think that's what matters most.
18k more for 110 more hp, 25 less torque, and 4225 lbs.
For $3-5k, I can match the hp output, way more torque, at 38700 lbs and there's no cure for a 3rd pedal. Even 5 tenths in a 1/4 mile, or 1-2 seconds a lap.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

C8 Stingray is not the track car. It is track capable, but it is not the product that is intended for frequent track drivers. That would be C8 Grand Sport and C8 Z06, neither of which has been released yet. I’d make the same bet with you when the first one of those two breaks surface.

What you said (in bold) is a very important detail in the difference between GM and Ford. And the fact that the Stingray with Z51 package is capable of holding it's own against a 6 year in the making 760 HP car says a lot about how damn good it really is.

Originally Posted by Evansa22

He's a professional troll, also its $73,999k. Its gonna be very few and far between on gt500's at msrp. Went into the dealership the other day and they wanted 10k adm on a 350. I'm with some of you guys, what you pay for the vehicle, not otd price, and to an extent msrp. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...6617/overview/
$65,700 msrp, $58,700 with incentives. Say $62k paid for the vehicle if you dont get all discounts.
A base gt500 with options MSRP's at 75-76k? Most People are going to pay minimum 80k+ for it. That's based on my experience with ford dealerships. Real life numbers, I think that's what matters most.
18k more for 110 more hp, 25 less torque, and 4225 lbs.
For $3-5k, I can match the hp output, way more torque, at 38700 lbs and there's no cure for a 3rd pedal. Even 5 tenths in a 1/4 mile, or 1-2 seconds a lap.

I wouldn't say he is a "professional" troll. That would indicate a high level of skill. He, at best, is terrible at it. He is completely see thru and I doubt anything out of his mouth is based in reality.

These past few days I have been looking at many different cars in the performance segment. Hellcats and Redeyes are all being offered with great discounts. ZL1s have always had great deals on top of the already stellar MSRP. There are some decent deals on C7s as well. The C8s are already priced very well even if right now there are no deals on them. But you can get them at MSRP easily. The only vehicles that you cannot say any of this about is the GT500 and GT350. Not only are they priced higher than their competitors from the start, chances are you will not be getting one even close to MSRP. If there are any dealerships out there that are selling them at MSRP, then you can be sure they have a waiting list for that allocation. The Shelbys are the only ones that have a song and dance and hoops to jump and all kinds of drama to go thru and even when you do all that you still are not assured of getting one at MSRP if at all. That is why I say that Ford with this GT500 has turned their entire customer base to either fans on the sidelines or cheerleaders neither of which has a chance of even driving one much less owning one.