[RagingHawk]

GT500 is able to win on the straights. Cornering and exit speed goes to the ZL1 1LE.

[joe944]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

MSRP is the only valuable comparison.

Wrong. The only valuable comparison is what people are ACTUALLY paying for these vehicles.

MSRP is SUGGESTED, it's even in the name. It is not the sale price.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

MSRP is the only valuable comparison. Otherwise, you throw in variables like discounts and ability to negotiate.

Additionally, ADM is a dealer thing and has nothing to do with the manufacturer.

An important difference is while one camp is bragging about a car they can't afford, the other camp is out driving their cars.

Your typical Mustang loyalist can afford the 95K GT500? Most people buying the car are not Mustang loyalists and are new to the Mustang. There a few in the Mustang camp getting themselves in debt hoping it will pay off with Youtube ....

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by joe944

Wrong. The only valuable comparison is what people are ACTUALLY paying for these vehicles.

MSRP is SUGGESTED, it's even in the name. It is not the sale price.

Yes, MSRP is what the manufacturer suggests you sell that car for, it's what they see the value as and is the price they set for the market. What the market does after that is more valuable when comparing cars?

Can you help me understand your thought process on why?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by joe944

Wrong. The only valuable comparison is what people are ACTUALLY paying for these vehicles.

MSRP is SUGGESTED, it's even in the name. It is not the sale price.

So say somebody traded in a 5th Gen ZL1 for their 6th gen ZL1, then technically they only may have only ACTUALLY paid 30K for it... doesn't make for a fair comparison

[joe944]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yes, MSRP is what the manufacturer suggests you sell that car for, it's what they see the value as and is the price they set for the market. What the market does after that is more valuable when comparing cars?

Can you help me understand your thought process on why?

When I compare vehicles that I want to purchase I look at how much it is going to cost me to purchase them, which includes a lot of variables like the specific dealership and whatever other offers may be on the table at the time.

Those are part of the equation and cannot be simply ignored for theoretical reasons.

Originally Posted by shaffe

So say somebody traded in a 5th Gen ZL1 for their 6th gen ZL1, then technically they only may have only ACTUALLY paid 30K for it... doesn't make for a fair comparison

You are given a value for your trade-in which goes towards the purchase of the new vehicle. The documents don't say you paid 30k for a 60k car. No straw man arguments, please.

[RagingHawk]

I don't know where people are getting the 4,000lb curb weight for the CFTP version. The base is 4,225. The track pack is 4,175. Imo, the base is a cool car and a good pick up. I don't see the point in the track pack.

[BlaqWhole]

MSRP vs MSRP is a valid argument when cars are usually bought at or around MSRP. However the Shelbys have consistently and notoriously been selling way above MSRP. I'm not talking about $2K or $3K or even $5K. I'm talking about $10K and up to $20K. So while we compare these cars at MSRP because that represents the money the manufacturer put into that specific vehicle, from a performance aspect, if I can't buy a Base GT500 for $74K, then MSRP is an invalid argument. I could order a Base C8 right now for $60K with no additional addons. I will pay $60K plus taxes and tags. You are NOT going to get a GT500 in any configuration and whether bare bones or with addons for what it will cost at MSRP. That is not going to happen. You are going to pay at least a $10K markup. Which significantly affects the value of a car. At $74K the Base GT500 is worth every penny. But that does not matter because I'm not going to get one at that price. I'm going to pay $85K-$90K for a $74K car at which point, is it still the same value?

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Anyway, guys, I think I've said all I need/want to say about the GT500 for now. I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

The thing you refuse to acknowledge, and the reason this is being debated in the first place, is that the GT500 does not impress most people because it is very late to the game. I'm not speaking for anyone here. But the general thought from what I gather is that 10 sec runs have been a norm here with our cars for a while. Therefore it is gonna take more than that to impress us. Sure the reviewers went apeshit and acted like they've never seen a car this fast before. Yet most of us who go to the track see 10 sec Hellcats, ZL1s, etc all the time. I went to the Hellcat pages and they all expressed the same thoughts. That Hellcats and Redeyes have been running those times and better on non-prepped tracks and without needing special treatment and private sessions etc for 5 years. They are not impressed either. The only ones who are impressed are Mustang guys and maybe a few others. If you don't believe me then go take a look for yourself. I see the same things being said that the GT500 is 5 years late everywhere. So I get it that you and a bunch of M6G guys think this is the greatest thing in the world and to you all it might be. But that just shows how far behind you've all been all these years. Like how in 2018 they all went crazy over the GT doing a low 12 and to us it was just any other day.

When the GT500 gets tested next to a Redeye or ZL1 or Z06 or Hellcat or any number of other vehicles that have been doing low 11s for a while, you are not going to see a 10.6 second run. I doubt you will see a 10.8 second run either. My bet is that in normal test conditions it will do a low 11 and will probably get beat by the C8 Z51, Redeye, Z06, and ZR1. The only car it might manage to beat is the ZL1 and I'm betting it will be within a 2/10s difference. So your 10.6 will not matter when it can't beat a 495 HP Corvette.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Yes, MSRP is what the manufacturer suggests you sell that car for, it's what they see the value as and is the price they set for the market. What the market does after that is more valuable when comparing cars?

Can you help me understand your thought process on why?

Because we are the consumers and will be forced to pay market price?

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

MSRP vs MSRP is a valid argument when cars are usually bought at or around MSRP. However the Shelbys have consistently and notoriously been selling way above MSRP. I'm not talking about $2K or $3K or even $5K. I'm talking about $10K and up to $20K. So while we compare these cars at MSRP because that represents the money the manufacturer put into that specific vehicle, from a performance aspect, if I can't buy a Base GT500 for $74K, then MSRP is an invalid argument. I could order a Base C8 right now for $60K with no additional addons. I will pay $60K plus taxes and tags. You are NOT going to get a GT500 in any configuration and whether bare bones or with addons for what it will cost at MSRP. That is not going to happen. You are going to pay at least a $10K markup. Which significantly affects the value of a car. At $74K the Base GT500 is worth every penny. But that does not matter because I'm not going to get one at that price. I'm going to pay $85K-$90K for a $74K car at which point, is it still the same value?

Well said, I see some guys in this thread saying that the GT500 is a better value to them than at the ZL1. And this is it because they're setting the price at 74K. They are going to be very lucky if they can find a no option base that a dealer is going to sell at 74K. We know with market adjustments there is going to be a 5-10K adm on the base. So would like to hear their opinion when it is a 85K car vs a 60-65K one.

[joe944]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Well said, I see some guys in this thread saying that the GT500 is a better value to them than at the ZL1. And this is it because they're setting the price at 74K. They are going to be very lucky if they can find a no option base that a dealer is going to sell at 74K. We know with market adjustments there is going to be a 5-10K adm on the base. So would like to hear their opinion when it is a 85K car vs a 60-65K one.

That is the nice thing when talking about value for performance. There is no gray area.

You pay X and get Y performance. If the market values one product over another, resulting in artificially higher costs, then the value for performance goes down for that product.

[LostM]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The bad news will be when they line it up next to a C8 and it doesn't get the Evans special treatment and it gets beaten. Even more bad news will come when it meets the ZLE on track and gets curb stomped into oblivion.

How so? I get it, in fantasy land. multiple people have already ran faster than the C8.. regular people.. expect more of the same

But back to the point, whats going to happen to when the 1le lines up next to a GT500? spolier alert, GM gets smoked

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I said, the ONLY objective data that these guys have to offer is quarter mile times. Everything else they have said is based on their opinions. Opinions mean nothing. So their praise, objectively, can only be based off of one thing and that is quarter mile runs.

Ok.

Post links of all these GT500s selling at MSRP. I'll wait.

Why does it matter to you soo much for me to be impressed with the GT500? Like I said, it took them 6 years to build it. It costs $74K. And it needed 760 HP to do it. Meanwhile 10s has been a norm for years. Hellcats have been doing it. Redeyes have been doing it. ZR1s. Z06s. Private owned ZL1s. GTRs. M5s. Demons have been low 10s. It is 2020. 10s are no longer impressive. Ford missed that boat back in 2015 when they were chasing the 2015 Z28. The GT500 is not doing anything out of the ordinary for a car with 760 HP and costing $74K. Cheaper cars have been doing it. Cars with less HP/TQ have been doing it. You are impressed with it because you are a Ford guy and this is Ford's first time getting there. Just like you were impressed with the GT in 2018 despite the fact that plenty of other cars had been running what the GT finally managed to run. You're like the football fan who's team finally won a Superbowl ring. To you this is new uncharted and amazing territory. To me, been there done that, no big deal, yawn. The problem with you is that you're soo excited about it that you want all of us to jump for joy with you. LOL!


Bragging about a car you don't own, is like bragging about how hot your neighbor's wife is. LOL!

Yes I am above caring about cars that I don't own. They mean nothing to me because I have nothing to gain from them. If a car I own or plan to buy does something spectacular then I can enjoy it because I own it or will own it. Otherwise I'm just fanboying something for no damn reason. The GT500 could run 9s and it still wouldn't make your GT anything more than it is.

again, GM DIDNT do it for cheaper. they didnt do it at all.

Objective data? you mean like us knowing it set the gratton lap record months ago? ya know there is video of it and timed yes, pretty sure its going to eat the 1l3's lunch, with no problem

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Ford invited everyone out to an downhill , well prepped drag strip to show off their new 'track beast' of a car.

And some guys here want to pretend like Ford is not making that their marketing priority. Then Ford did some trickery on one of the cars and sent some dumbass to advertise the amazing '10.6' quarter mile time which has become every headline on every automotive magazine. And the car community will praise this car and trash the ZL1 because of that.

Even though it took Ford 5 extra years and an asking price of 80,000-100,000 to achieve those results. Compared to the low 60's you can get in an ZL1 for.

the track is uphill actually, but thats a good attempt at excuses

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

That better be track ready since it is advertised as an 18,000 dollar track package, with an overall commanding price of 95,000 plus taxes. It cost Ford a lot of money to create what Chevy could produce for 25 thousand less. So either the GT500 is not an attainable muscle car anymore and intended to compete with Corvette's/911's, or Ford is working with an inferior platform that required them to spend 5 years fine tuning this car to beat a product from 2016.

If this was released in 2017 I'd be somewhat impressed. But with a release in 2020 and a sky's high as a ceiling approach that has driven the costs up so much for this gens GT500, making it unattainable for a lot of muscle car fans, I'm not really feeling it.

If I valued 1/4 mile over everything else I would probably have a different opinion.

if you can afford 65k, you can afford 73k. if not, you probably cant afford 65k either, realistically.

You guys keep saying GM did it for less $.. heres the problem, THEY DIDNT. if it cant beat the GT500, then they didnt "do it"

I dont know why you are so mad or unwilling to accept it. newer cars nearly always outperform older ones. Expecting the GT500 to NOT decimiate (kill off) the Camaro was an error on your part.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by joe944

When I compare vehicles that I want to purchase I look at how much it is going to cost me to purchase them, which includes a lot of variables like the specific dealership and whatever other offers may be on the table at the time.

Those are part of the equation and cannot be simply ignored for theoretical reasons.



You are given a value for your trade-in which goes towards the purchase of the new vehicle. The documents don't say you paid 30k for a 60k car. No straw man arguments, please.

Fine if you want to call that a straw man argument, try this one then.

The reason I prefer to compare MSRP to MSRP is there are just to many other variables. Some people don't include tax title license all that jazz in their OTD price. Some people do, some people don't have pay taxes on the car till they go to register it other people it gets rolled into the loan if you are financing it or it's due when you write a big fat check, what interest rate did you get, what is your sales tax rate compared to mine?

Example if me and my brother in law went and bought two of the exact same cars, from the exact same salesmen at the exact same dealership and got the exact same rebates and got them for the exact same price his OTD price is gonna be higher than mine because of the county he lives in and his tax rate is higher than mine.

[NW-99SS]

Y'all got anymore of them 73K GT500s?

The hypocrisy of pricing is crazy here. Fanbois being fanbois of a car 4 years late to the game. As expected...