[BowtieRocket]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

They are in fact more properly called 'links', most likely because they have exactly two pivots, one at each end. This probably sounds picky when most DIY'ers call just about every suspension arm or link an arm, but it's technically correct to call these things links.

They just aren't "endlinks".


Norm

Excuse my ignorance, I was just referring to them as BMR does...

http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=p...687&superpro=0

[BowtieRocket]

Another point of note, is that the end links should be upgraded with the larger sway bars. Now that is where the "weak link" is in the front suspension. Stiffer sway bars are really gonna stress those end links and may not feel the full improvement of the sway bars.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by BowtieRocket

Another point of note, is that the end links should be upgraded with the larger sway bars. Now that is where the "weak link" is in the front suspension. Stiffer sway bars are really gonna stress those end links and may not feel the full improvement of the sway bars.

Not an absolute. If GM uses the same end links from the factory on SS, 1LE or ZL1...then no endlink upgrade is necessary. Otherwise, GM would have done that..especially on the $62k ZL1.

[BowtieRocket]

Guess BMR doesn't know what they're talking about then huh? I get every company is out to make more money and sell more parts. But seems rather common sense that if you increase tension, supporting parts need increase strength as well...

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BowtieRocket

Another point of note, is that the end links should be upgraded with the larger sway bars. Now that is where the "weak link" is in the front suspension. Stiffer sway bars are really gonna stress those end links and may not feel the full improvement of the sway bars.

If you go with bars stiffer than anything Chevy fitted, better/stronger endlinks would at least be the 'safe' way to proceed. You might also gain easier or more reliable access to the attaching hardware.

The metal portions of endlinks aren't going to compromise bar stiffness unless the links are actually bending (likely about to break if this is the case). Bar stiffness gets lost in the rubber chassis-side bushings, and in older endlink designs where split bushings were used as "pivots" instead of spherical joints.


The only excuse I can offer for BMR's and the rest of the aftermarket suspension industry's blanket use of the term 'arms' to cover 'links' is that they've painted themselves into a corner using common terminology all these years. Heck, even the term 'sway bar' is really something different from the way it's used in the aftermarket and on most car forums (it's really something related to trailer towing, not chassis cornering roll and handling).


Norm

[08z51c6]

GM is supposed to be coming out with a kit that allows you to install the 1LE suspension on an SS with MRC. It even includes a calibration for the MRC.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by BowtieRocket

Guess BMR doesn't know what they're talking about then huh? I get every company is out to make more money and sell more parts. But seems rather common sense that if you increase tension, supporting parts need increase strength as well...

Another absolute. Just because the ZL1/1LE bars don't exceed the capabilities of the factory endlinks does not mean BMR doesn't know what they're talking about.

GM wouldn't put swaybars on endlinks that snap or bend and warranty the vehicle.

That's not to say that with other, larger aftermarket bar offerings an endlink upgrade is not necessary. Nor that what BMR offers isn't necessary for different uses. If I wanted to corner balance a car, I'd want adjustable endlinks for example.

[BowtieRocket]

I see your points gentlemen. I guess that says something about the GM offerings ability to make much difference. Guess we'll have to wait to see what Matt says...

[Norm Peterson]

Going stiffer with the bars just to go stiffer isn't a good way to proceed when cornering & handling balance is really what you're after. Ultimately, you end up in the land of diminishing returns where huge amounts of added stiffness only reduce roll slightly and outside wheel operating cambers improve only fractionally with respect to that. While still adding considerable wheel rate in one wheel bump situations.

My semi-educated guess puts 2°/lateral g as a reasonable point to shoot for in a dual purpose street/track car. At that point (with springs somewhere between 50% and 100% stiffer than OE, bars maybe 50% stiffer), one front bar adjustment (soft to mid, or mid to firm) is only going to reduce roll by something like 0.1°/g. A single rear bar adjustment, maybe less than that. You probably wouldn't even notice this small of a difference in roll.

GM may well be erring on the side of conservatism with softer bars and springs, but I think once you've firmed things in roll up by 50% or so without screwing up the handling balance - that further improvement in terms of roll and cambers is going to come much more slowly than the increase in bar stiffness.


Norm

[Mountain]

A few other points to consider about aftermarket components: adjustability and capability in respect to a said aftermarket company's suspension system.

BMR also sells lowering springs and sway bars MUCH stiffer than what GM offers for the Camaro (LT, SS, 1LE/ZL1).

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Plus the wall thicknesses for any bar that is not solid.

Be best with the two front bars pictured together and the two rear bars pictured together. Overall shapes and in particular the 'arm' lengths matter.


Norm

Hey Norm, not sure how the OP is going to measure wall thickness on the new bars (if they are even hollow) when there are no open ends of the tube. He would have to cut the bar into two pieces to measure this?? Or is there some other way I'm not thinking of to measure the wall thickness of the tubing with ordinary measuring tools?

[JaxChris]

Sledge,

If you had ordered the MRC version, then there would be a calibration code in the box that you need to take to the dealer for the MRC to be tuned for the stiffer ride. Check with TGPG to see if he can provide it for you. You won't be giving an accurate review without it and it would be cool if the rest of us can find out these calibration codes and go to the dealer as well to have our shocks adjusted.

Cheers!

[Eric SS]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

Sledge,

If you had ordered the MRC version, then there would be a calibration code in the box that you need to take to the dealer for the MRC to be tuned for the stiffer ride. Check with TGPG to see if he can provide it for you. You won't be giving an accurate review without it and it would be cool if the rest of us can find out these calibration codes and go to the dealer as well to have our shocks adjusted.

Cheers!

He didn't order the kit that comes with the springs and MRC calibration.

[Sub]

Lethal, how do they feel? Whats the consensus?

Is this considered a "GM" upgrade? Warranty still ok?