[h018871]

Item #10 near the front of the block on the drivers side is an oil gallery plug (maybe #11 too)
Did you replace item #19? Damaged o-rings can cause low or no oil pressure. It is on the back of block, under the rear cover.

[1LEThumper]

I would agree with Dan as well. Johnson lifters have shown to measure smaller in diameter than most. While the extra clearance isn’t typically bad it will drop oil pressure as the engine warms and the block opens the clearance even more and the oil thins. I believe Katech sells a Johnson lifter that is 0.0005 oversized. You could also look into the new Comp Evolution lifters as they are suppose to reduce oil leakage.

Either way it sounds like it builds pressure with rpm right? Just dropped with temp?

[MeanGreen1LE]

Originally Posted by 1LEThumper

I would agree with Dan as well. Johnson lifters have shown to measure smaller in diameter than most. While the extra clearance isn’t typically bad it will drop oil pressure as the engine warms and the block opens the clearance even more and the oil thins. I believe Katech sells a Johnson lifter that is 0.0005 oversized. You could also look into the new Comp Evolution lifters as they are suppose to reduce oil leakage.

Either way it sounds like it builds pressure with rpm right? Just dropped with temp?

Got my sandwich plate on today and pressures are within a few psi of what sender is reporting. Unfortunately
It was cooler out today than the first time I ran it. Pressures started 80 or better for first minute or so but gradually dropped as it warmed up. After almost 10 minutes and coolant temp at 190s it showed 12-14 psi on manual gauge.
And yes it will move up significantly with revs. (I’ve not had the car more than 3k because of these issues but it seems to build pressure fine even within that range).

Bought a digital inside micrometer to double check, a 0-1” outside mic and a mitutoyo bore gauge in a .8-1.4” size to check clearance of bore to lifters.

I wonder what kind of clearance would warrant me having the ability to say “yep that’s it”

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by MeanGreen1LE

Got my sandwich plate on today and pressures are within a few psi of what sender is reporting. Unfortunately
It was cooler out today than the first time I ran it. Pressures started 80 or better for first minute or so but gradually dropped as it warmed up. After almost 10 minutes and coolant temp at 190s it showed 12-14 psi on manual gauge.
And yes it will move up significantly with revs. (I’ve not had the car more than 3k because of these issues but it seems to build pressure fine even within that range).

Bought a digital inside micrometer to double check, a 0-1” outside mic and a mitutoyo bore gauge in a .8-1.4” size to check clearance of bore to lifters.

I wonder what kind of clearance would warrant me having the ability to say “yep that’s it”

I’d think anything over 0.0022” would be an issue. There’s plenty of resources on the web to cover the specification. I’d suggest you ask Johnson when they recommend.

Are you going to use the OD mics to set the bore gauge?

[MeanGreen1LE]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

I’d think anything over 0.0022” would be an issue. There’s plenty of resources on the web to cover the specification. I’d suggest you ask Johnson when they recommend.

Are you going to use the OD mics to set the bore gauge?

Yeah I’m going to email Johnson to see where they think it would cause a problem. I’ve done a bunch of searching and there is a lot of variability on what people recommend for clearance. Will take less clearance with Al block before it causes an issue though.

And yes I’ll mic the outside of the lifter and then zero the bore gauge to the mic before testing the bore.

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by MeanGreen1LE

Yeah I’m going to email Johnson to see where they think it would cause a problem. I’ve done a bunch of searching and there is a lot of variability on what people recommend for clearance. Will take less clearance with Al block before it causes an issue though.

And yes I’ll mic the outside of the lifter and then zero the bore gauge to the mic before testing the bore.

I highly doubt any lifters are anything but perfect cylinders due to centerless grinding.

Hopefully all of you lifter bores are round top to bottom. At least you have the bore gauge to check that too.

[Katech_Mike]

We have not seen one of our pumps fail yet. Not saying it can't happen but we haven't seen it.

Dan is correct in his advise to unplug the oil control solenoid. When the solenoid is disconnected the oil pump defaults to the highest pressure setting. The solenoid can be unplugged from the front cover without opening the engine.

There are 3 plugs on the front cover. Cam sensor, VVT, and Oil control solenoid. The Oil control solenoid the the furthest plug to the left (passenger side).

What has me concerned is that you noted a sparkle in the oil. That is typically bearing material in my experience. Might be worth just pulling the engine before more damage is done.

[MeanGreen1LE]

Originally Posted by Katech_Mike

We have not seen one of our pumps fail yet. Not saying it can't happen but we haven't seen it.

Dan is correct in his advise to unplug the oil control solenoid. When the solenoid is disconnected the oil pump defaults to the highest pressure setting. The solenoid can be unplugged from the front cover without opening the engine.

There are 3 plugs on the front cover. Cam sensor, VVT, and Oil control solenoid. The Oil control solenoid the the furthest plug to the left (passenger side).

What has me concerned is that you noted a sparkle in the oil. That is typically bearing material in my experience. Might be worth just pulling the engine before more damage is done.

Thanks, I'm not intending to sound like I'm blaming your pump; more just wondering if it was possible as the issues do seem similar to what the factory pumps do when going bad. After hearing from you and Dan I don't really think it sounds to likely. I actually appreciate the help/suggestions I've received!

I was confused and thinking about the plug on the solenoid itself so I may try to unplug the harness where you spoke of and see if it changes anything with the pressure. One question though: What should the solenoid be doing at idle? My understanding is that it should be on and lowering the pressure at low loads such as idle and light cruising. And is the solenoid variable or just on/off.

I found some dark gray/silver specs in the residual oil inside filter when I cut it open; however I shined a light in the oil while I drained the pan and saw nothing there at all. Also nothing stuck to drain plug. I am still nervous about running it more however.

[MeanGreen1LE]

Well it’s now like 7 months later. Had engine completely out. Put in new cam to take advantage of reliefs on drop in pistons. Checked bearing clearance on rods and lifter bores.

Rod #2 the cap bolts felt significantly easier to break free so I wondered if I somehow forget to torque those down since I did it in the car and was wrenching overhead. Visually inspected bottom half of each bearing and all looked brand new save for one with a couple tiny scratches that would not even catch a fingernail. Torqued to spec all rod bearings fell within .001-.0015” using plasti gauge. Got .005-.006 stretch on all bolts.

Checked lifter bore clearance using a mic and mitutoyo bore gauge. Clearances were
2x.0021
9x.0022
4x.0023
1x.0024

Did not check main bearings as car still only has <1500 miles.
Did not check cam bearings for same reason and used plenty of lube and was super careful when removing and installing cam.

Reused Katek oil pump.

FINALLY got car back together. And much to my chagrin it has EXCTLY the same problem. Gradually drops to 10psi at operating temps. Even hot 3k rpm gets about 40. Car has not been tuned and is running base tune for very different cam and well I’d rather it not grenade so I haven’t revved it higher.

Any ideas???? Will those lifter clearances cumulatively add up to a 10psi hot idle?
I still don’t think it is the oil pump really?? I almost just put a factory on it but they have know issues. So irritated will have been down 2 years in October. Please help.

[95 imp]

Maybe you need to check the mains?

[MeanGreen1LE]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Maybe you need to check the mains?

Oh I will for sure if I have to go that far yet again. I’d really rather not but it is likely.

[HDRDTD]

I'd change the oil pump to at least rule it out as a possible cause.

[MeanGreen1LE]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

I'd change the oil pump to at least rule it out as a possible cause.

Yeah in retrospect I wish I’d at least taken the katech pump apart to make sure. I’ve had the factory pump apart and there is risk of not getting everything back correctly if you are not careful though.

[Katech_Mike]

Those lifter clearances are pretty loose. OEM clearance is around .0010