[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Since when is 526HP low?

Again who makes an N/A V8 with more power?

You want to talk about resto mods, you got a point there. I don't think anyone in their right mind would use a Ford modular motor for a rest mod when you can find LS engines/parts for dirt cheap and yes once you go aftermarket you can make a lot of power in a LS style engine very easily and cheaply NA. But we aren't talking about aftermarket. We are taking rolling off the showroom floor.

Oh and the LT4 in the CTS-V is hit with the gas guzzler tax

I know there will be a GM bias here, but sometimes its ok to tip your cap across the field to the competition.

Not only do I tip my hat to the Mustang competition, I have owned 5 of them and loved them all...I am not necessarily a Chevy fanboy...I just love cars.

I am quite certain the "base" engine in the new Camaro is only the beginning of a long line of great factory high performance cars that more often than not outperform their Ford counterparts. I give credit to Ford for going way out on the limb to build the Voodoo, but it has to be disheartening to spend all that money on that engine for the relatively poor performance output. Of course that's my opinion.

I guess HP is one measure of the value of a car, but I honestly see that Chevrolet has done wonderfully well in every automotive arena using the engines they have built and raced. Seems to me, they have developed an excellent all-around sporty car that doesn't need the highest HP to win. I'm sure you would be willing to give a tip of the hat to that fact...lol. All the Ford guys point to the fact that the small displacement Coyote and Voodoo put out a lot of HP for their size and sometimes use that as an excuse for it's poor performance...ok, but it usually takes a back seat to Chevy's bigger engines. Ford could have built any size engine they wanted.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Why is this useful? On a race track it means that the car has to shift less, has more power on tap, and can enter a turn at say..5,000 RPM and put the pedal down and carry on for another 3,000 RPM..the LT1 would have to shift long, long before that. This is a huge advantage at tracks with long, open straights and sweeping turns.

The LT1 is not the same motor as LS engines gone by, it makes much more power down low..but doesn't go as high at all. The LS7 could go to 7,000 without problem bone stock where the LT1 was running out of oomph at 5,800.

the gearing isn't the same so while it has another 2000rpm it doesn't necessarily mean your shifting that much less, if at all

i think if we get a chart with the mph next to the rpm of the gt350 in each gear it would be useful

this is the best i can do ATM

GT350 First: 3.253:1, Second: 2:233:1, Third: 1.611:1, Fourth: 1.24:3, Fifth 1:1, Sixth: .629:1, and Reverse: 2.955:1.

lets just look at the first column

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Dude I can't tell if you're just viciously misinformed or a really skilled troll.

Ford isn't calling the FPC "new technology", it is "new technology" to the US domestic V8 market.

I didn't compare the weight of the LT1 to the 1LE at all

The LT4 in the Z06 does require a GG tax:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2015...-released.html

There is no other "variant" of the LT1 other than the LT4.

Please show me another production line, NA V8, either in DOHC or OHV configuration, that makes 526 HP and 429 TQ on 5.2L, and you'll get bonus points to find one that is sold in the US market without a gas guzzler tax.

BTW...The Z/28 had a GG tax with the LS7 @ 3,850lbs..not 4,100lbs.

Also please show me quantifiable proof that the LS series "has won more races than any Ford past, present or future"..

Well, obviously I can't list them all, but just scroll down the SS classes at this http://sportsman.nhra.com/content/ab...587&zoneid=101

address and tell me how many Coyote engines hold any of the speed records. Then count the number of 2005 and up Chevys with LS engines you find there. If you counted them overall Chevy lists tons more records than Fords.

Well...8 Lemans wins is a pretty good indication and that's well proven. Not counting the Prototype wins

Check this site out: https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/ and you'll find 6 LS engines in the top 100 fastest laps at Nurburgring and there were 2 Fords.

We could talk about the LS engine's success as a GT winner and find no Fords winning a race much less a podium finish.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If the 5.2 was under the hood of a Camaro, Paris would think its the greatest engine ever made.

Are you kidding, I would throw up if that ever happened...lol.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

While the LT1 is running out of breath, the Voodoo has another 2,250 RPM to run, and is making ever increasing power long after the LT1 has run out.

Why is this useful? On a race track it means that the car has to shift less, has more power on tap, and can enter a turn at say..5,000 RPM and put the pedal down and carry on for another 3,000 RPM..the LT1 would have to shift long, long before that. This is a huge advantage at tracks with long, open straights and sweeping turns.

The LT1 is not the same motor as LS engines gone by, it makes much more power down low..but doesn't go as high at all. The LS7 could go to 7,000 without problem bone stock where the LT1 was running out of oomph at 5,800.

You would have a valid point about RPMs and shifting if and only if the SS & GT350 had identical transmission gearing, final drive ratios, and tire diameters -or at least if the product of those 3 variables & engine speed were identical. But they don't.

I don't have the time or inclination right now to go through everything in a detailed comparison between the drivetrain setup between the two cars, but here are the basics of how it all works together:

If you have a 'fast' engine, the drivetrain is generally going to be setup more aggressively, making for a greater gear reduction (and consequently converting some of the extra engine speed into torque at the wheel). This means that for a given wheel speed, the engine will be turning faster than it would be on a normal car.

Alternatively, if you have a 'slow' engine the opposite will normally hold true. It will have less gear reduction, meaning that for a given wheel speed the engine will tend to be turning slower than an average engine.

Most cars are geared in such a way to achieve similar (wheel) speeds in the same gear -despite the engine turning at different RPMs to accomplish this.

In the end, ultimate engine speed is no more or less important to shift points than any other part of the drivetrain. You can have a torquey, slow engine with lazy gearing such that it can happily cover 50 mph to 130 in a single gear and barely needs to be shifted around a track. You can also have an engine that revs to the moon but is geared so aggressively that you'd have to shift 3 times to get from 70 to 110. Neither one of those combinations would be particularly great around a track, I'm just using it to illustrate the point that engine speed isn't the be-all and end-all of when you need to shift (which seems to be the general point of that blurb of yours that I quoted).

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You would have a valid point about RPMs and shifting if and only if the SS & GT350 had identical transmission gearing, final drive ratios, and tire diameters -or at least if the product of those 3 variables & engine speed were identical. But they don't.

I don't have the time or inclination right now to go through everything in a detailed comparison between the drivetrain setup between the two cars, but here are the basics of how it all works together:

If you have a 'fast' engine, the drivetrain is generally going to be setup more aggressively, making for a greater gear reduction (and consequently converting some of the extra engine speed into torque at the wheel). This means that for a given wheel speed, the engine will be turning faster than it would be on a normal car.

Alternatively, if you have a 'slow' engine the opposite will normally hold true. It will have less gear reduction, meaning that for a given wheel speed the engine will tend to be turning slower than an average engine.

Most cars are geared in such a way to achieve similar (wheel) speeds in the same gear -despite the engine turning at different RPMs to accomplish this.

In the end, ultimate engine speed is no more or less important to shift points than any other part of the drivetrain. You can have a torquey, slow engine with lazy gearing such that it can happily cover 50 mph to 130 in a single gear and barely needs to be shifted around a track. You can also have an engine that revs to the moon but is geared so aggressively that you'd have to shift 3 times to get from 70 to 110. Neither one of those combinations would be particularly great around a track, I'm just using it to illustrate the point that engine speed isn't the be-all and end-all of when you need to shift (which seems to be the general point of that blurb of yours that I quoted).

A much better explanation of what I was trying to say earlier! lol

[ChefBorOzzy]

Some things are simply common sense.. Or should be. You don't have to know the inner workings of vehicle parts.

[khell86]

I'm pretty sure speed knows what you all are talking about. The point he's getting across is they have done just that for the voodoo. They've taken advantage of its RPM band and adjusted gearing to where you could practically stay in 4th around the majority of the track.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

I seen those posts lol. Torque multiplication.

Didn't turn out too well in the real world.

Drivers race they said...yeah... Sure

Goes something like this.. Hey, what's the maximum torque my engine produces? Okay, multiply that by final drive and that gear ratio and you get your net torque!!! Omg, the Coyote engine makes 400 torque whether at idle or at 5k RPM so it all makes sense!!!!

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by khell86

I'm pretty sure speed knows what you all are talking about. The point he's getting across is they have done just that for the voodoo. They've taken advantage of its RPM band and adjusted gearing to where you could practically stay in 4th around the majority of the track.

Except he doesn't know what he's talking about.

He said the GT350 will keep pulling way after the Camaro shifts because the voodoo revs higher.. There is no way to twist what he said to make it seem like he didn't say something idiotic.

[6spdhyperblue]

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Except he doesn't know what he's talking about.

He said the GT350 will keep pulling way after the Camaro shifts because the voodoo revs higher.. There is no way to twist what he said to make it seem like he didn't say something idiotic.

The fact is, on a road course, you are going to be shifting the GT350 much less often than the SS Camaro. Those shifts will cost you time, no way around it. In addition, the GT350 only has one overdriven gear, the Camaro has two. This is one factor that contributes to the better MPG for the SS versus the GT350.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by titanfan

The fact is, on a road course, you are going to be shifting the GT350 much less often than the SS Camaro. Those shifts will cost you time, no way around it. In addition, the GT350 only has one overdriven gear, the Camaro has two. This is one factor that contributes to the better MPG for the SS versus the GT350.

[mcsoul]

Does anyone know what mph the gt350 3rd to 4th shift is at? That's the key here, because you may be as likely to have to downshift at gt350 into 2nd as you are to have to upshift an SS into 4th depending on the track.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by titanfan

The fact is, on a road course, you are going to be shifting the GT350 much less often than the SS Camaro. Those shifts will cost you time, no way around it. In addition, the GT350 only has one overdriven gear, the Camaro has two. This is one factor that contributes to the better MPG for the SS versus the GT350.

Two over drives in the auto, but also has 6 power gears. M6 only has one overdrive just like the GT350s.

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