[cellsafemode]

sorry but 6 cans does not a constitute a pattern. Especially if these are cans that change the characteristics of the PCV system rather than just sit in-line (2 port can).

I wasn't implying that you were lying.. I'm implying that somehow i'm lying

While I'm not debating that oil vapor in minute quantities is present in all PCV air going into the intake, when it's reduced to a certain level it doesn't adhere to surfaces to any meaningful degree. To the point where normal maintenance (valve cleaner once a year or so) will handle ensuring buildup doesn't occur. In these small quantities even having a catch can may not lead to any meaningful buildup in the can, especially without cooling the can to below engine bay temperatures to promote precipitation. Only heavy amounts of oil vapor will lead to noticeable buildup over the period of only a few thousand miles (oil change intervals).

Since I didn't have any signs of such buildup before adding the can, i dont think i'm missing any due to the catch can potentially leaking air (though i will pressure test it). Engines change over time though so I suspect many more thousands of miles from now this may change ...which is why i installed the cans to begin with even though there was absolutely no evidence i needed them.

You make a bunch of other equivalencies to other mods that are small or perhaps dont show any noticeable benefit on their own. I'm not arguing that a catch can isn't good even if you dont see buildup in your intake. I'm arguing that supplementing the stock system by changing how vacuum is applied is more about making the can _look_ like it's needed by pulling in heavier oil vapor that otherwise would not have been pulled in to the PCV hose. The PCV system is going to do it's job without additional vacuum just fine. The vacuum is only there so the fumes dont leak to the atmosphere.

At best the supplemental vacuum changes siphon fuel vapors more readily into the intake and maybe improve engine efficiency a minuscule amount but they do so at the same time as obviously pulling in more oil vapor into the PCV hose and then through your catch can and into the intake (because catch cans dont catch everything). So you're increasing the amount of oil vapor entering your intake for no reason other than to demonstrate how your catch can works. It isn't improving your oil and it isn't really improving your engine by doing that.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

sorry but 6 cans does not a constitute a pattern. Especially if these are cans that change the characteristics of the PCV system rather than just sit in-line (2 port can).

its more convincing than the single person with probably the lowest miles on any of the cars being tested. once again, tighten your connections and then post back after 3-4k miles. as for what we have to go off of, currently, 83% have cans that are working and collecting. only 17% don't.

I wasn't implying that you were lying.. I'm implying that somehow i'm lying

mmmkay, I'll leave that be.

While I'm not debating that oil vapor in minute quantities is present in all PCV air going into the intake, when it's reduced to a certain level it doesn't adhere to surfaces to any meaningful degree. To the point where normal maintenance (valve cleaner once a year or so) will handle ensuring buildup doesn't occur. In these small quantities even having a catch can may not lead to any meaningful buildup in the can, especially without cooling the can to below engine bay temperatures to promote precipitation. Only heavy amounts of oil vapor will lead to noticeable buildup over the period of only a few thousand miles (oil change intervals).

oil being an adhesive and relatively speaking sticky substance...it doesn't matter how much its reduced. it will stay and eventually build up. I mean anyone who has seen any footage of an oil spill knows this. once it sticks to an animal, rocks, etc... it will require cleaning. there is nothing inside the intake tract that will accomplish the cleaning, since port injection used to be "the cleaner" factor. this is a direct injection engine. what this prevents is the coking of the intake valve in long term usage. so for those who plan to keep their car for more than 3-5 years.... its a wise no brainer.

Since I didn't have any signs of such buildup before adding the can, i dont think i'm missing any due to the catch can potentially leaking air (though i will pressure test it). Engines change over time though so I suspect many more thousands of miles from now this may change ...which is why i installed the cans to begin with even though there was absolutely no evidence i needed them.

once again, with a stock PCV, you don't miss the oil vapors. they are there. if you are so convinced that it doesn't work, out of logic, you would have returned your setup back to stock and sold those two cans...you said you invested 300$ you could and would easily get 200$ selling em. since you don't get any collection, and you seem to be convinced you don't need em.

You make a bunch of other equivalencies to other mods that are small or perhaps dont show any noticeable benefit on their own.

no, they actually do. everything I listed is part of the basic working of an engine and how things work. if this is something you don't know about, i'd suggest doing some research on basic mods, and how engines work. I'm not being an a$$hole by saying this, but this really is BASIC engine knowledge.

as for my mods, I've posted before and after timeslips with most of em. if not weight differences for items dealing with rotating mass. see...the difference between my posts, and what you have posted... is you just have theories (some have been false, the definitions have been off, and you post back saying, this isn't what I mean when I say "XXXX").

I've posted, facts, references, and RESULTS. even back to back track days showing the gains, and with most of em, the MPH gains over a span of 14-18 runs...its just common sense, where the lower times came from. the only thing we've truly seen from you is you have a tune, and you claim to drive aggressively. I trust anyone, till given a reason not to, so I take you at your word that you actually do drive fairly aggressive.

feel free to post any real world tests. I truly welcome em. cause the last time I asked for any results, and your reply was you don't go to tracks (which is a solid way to find out if your mods are actually doing something).... and you don't really do any testing.

I'm not arguing that a catch can isn't good even if you don't see buildup in your intake. I'm arguing that supplementing the stock system by changing how vacuum is applied is more about making the can _look_ like it's needed by pulling in heavier oil vapor that otherwise would not have been pulled in to the PCV hose. The PCV system is going to do it's job without additional vacuum just fine. The vacuum is only there so the fumes don't leak to the atmosphere.

how can you argue something and be confident on it when you have NEVER tried? a day ago, you were saying blowby doesn't occur in all engines, when that turned out to be the exact opposite of the truth. and I posted plenty of sources saying otherwise. someone who states blowby doesn't occur on all engines, will not have a solid understanding on how a PCV works.

secondly to add to that, you were saying that adding additional vacuum to an engine to suck out oil vapors is gonna hurt the engine. then it was posted multiple times that adding a vacuum of 12-15 inches of vacuum is beneficial in most all engines.

and I just noticed this:

The PCV system is going to do it's job without additional vacuum just fine. The vacuum is only there so the fumes don't leak to the atmosphere

ummmm, the PCV system is closed.... so theres literally ZERO chance of just leaking into the atmosphere. theres no where to leak to. the vacuum is there so that the pressure doesn't build up to the point of blowing oil past critical seals and making sure it gets ingested back into the engine. and that's without additional vaccum. however on a stock PCV system there is no catch can and no real space to add additional vacuum. so that statement was just random and false. once you modify the stock system, then everything that was stock, doesn't really apply. more than likely, anytime something is changed, there will be a different set of values that now apply or are beneficial.

At best the supplemental vacuum changes siphon fuel vapors more readily into the intake and maybe improve engine efficiency a minuscule amount but they do so at the same time as obviously pulling in more oil vapor into the PCV hose and then through your catch can and into the intake (because catch cans dont catch everything). So you're increasing the amount of oil vapor entering your intake for no reason other than to demonstrate how your catch can works. It isn't improving your oil and it isn't really improving your engine by doing that.

this has already been discussed, and you turned the blind eye to it.

1) if your catch can is there, and actually does its job, then more doesn't go into the intake. it goes into the can.

2) we already know it improves efficiency. how much? all depends.... I've been seeing about 24-36 mpg per tank so far on a full fill up. my acceleration is better, and my TB has been clean a lot longer. once again, I'm reporting my results and what I'm finding. my new setup has been in for about 4k miles now. you surely cant sit there and legit thing saying this or that doesn't or isn't gonna happen, when someone is actually doing it and seeing it first hand. remember, I daily drive, weekend road trips, track and autox. so since sept 11th 2017 to 10-24-17, I have done about 4,300 miles. so my results will def come quicker than most.

3) the reason why theres oil vapor.... is because its been mix with things that are volatile. that's the acids, fuel, moisture that you mentioned earlier.. so that's trapped all in that oil vapor.

so really it actually WOULD increase my oil quality in the pan as the majority (still is liquid form) is at the bottom and isn't getting contaminated by the vapor mixture (its being sucked out). and if that's being sucked out, and not mixing with the majority of the oil pool, then its not being put through the oil passages, bearings, oil pump, etc....

basic logic

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Wow we all went full on savage over a subject anyone with a 5th Gen would say get one.

[Elite Engineering]

We will add one thing here as Nui has it well under control with facts:


The PCV system was mandated for the 1965 model year for all US cars and light trucks as a step to reduce the amount of ground water pollution caused by the oil runoff (old timers will remember the black oil path down the middle of every lane) by the old "vented" crankcase as all engines vented prior to this (another reason to NEVER run vented or breathers!!). Back then engines only lasted 40-50k miles before needing a complete rebuild due to wear. BUT after the PCV system was implemented these same engines, running the same engine oils and oil change intervals (was 1000-1200 miles back then) now were lasting 100,000 miles plus and even then wear was a fraction of the past. This was an unexpected surprise as the industry did not realize what was causing most wear, the combustion by-products entering as blow-by. The PCV system was now removing and flushing much of what used to remain in the crankcase accumulating in the engine oil. Since then the PCV system has been optimized to even better remove these damaging compounds and the intake manifold vacuum has been the primary evacuation suction source since. The LGX is the first engine in the Auto industry since to delete that critical needed evacuation suction source and rely only on the Venturi Effect generated suction, and this is contributing to wear like hasn't been seen in many decades. So it is a step backwards in crankcase evacuation.


Also, the PCV system was first invented by GM for WWII tanks that were not moving fast enough for the road draft vent tubes to remove the un-burnt fuel from the crankcase and the engines would literally "blow up". Not fail, but explode causing fatalities to the tank crews. The PCV system using intake manifold vacuum was born at that time. It was not until the 1960's that it was mandated for passenger vehicles.

[17LGX]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

The LGX is the first engine in the Auto industry since to delete that critical needed evacuation suction source and rely only on the Venturi Effect generated suction, and this is contributing to wear like hasn't been seen in many decades. So it is a step backwards in crankcase evacuation.

Sounds like a prediction that the millions of GM LGX family engines will be junk before long with no residual value. Those without catch cans will drag down the value of those who bought into the modification to save their engines.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

We will add one thing here as Nui has it well under control with facts:


The PCV system was mandated for the 1965 model year for all US cars and light trucks as a step to reduce the amount of ground water pollution caused by the oil runoff (old timers will remember the black oil path down the middle of every lane) by the old "vented" crankcase as all engines vented prior to this (another reason to NEVER run vented or breathers!!). Back then engines only lasted 40-50k miles before needing a complete rebuild due to wear. BUT after the PCV system was implemented these same engines, running the same engine oils and oil change intervals (was 1000-1200 miles back then) now were lasting 100,000 miles plus and even then wear was a fraction of the past. This was an unexpected surprise as the industry did not realize what was causing most wear, the combustion by-products entering as blow-by. The PCV system was now removing and flushing much of what used to remain in the crankcase accumulating in the engine oil. Since then the PCV system has been optimized to even better remove these damaging compounds and the intake manifold vacuum has been the primary evacuation suction source since. The LGX is the first engine in the Auto industry since to delete that critical needed evacuation suction source and rely only on the Venturi Effect generated suction, and this is contributing to wear like hasn't been seen in many decades. So it is a step backwards in crankcase evacuation.


Also, the PCV system was first invented by GM for WWII tanks that were not moving fast enough for the road draft vent tubes to remove the un-burnt fuel from the crankcase and the engines would literally "blow up". Not fail, but explode causing fatalities to the tank crews. The PCV system using intake manifold vacuum was born at that time. It was not until the 1960's that it was mandated for passenger vehicles.

OMFG stop posting the same shit over and over again and interact with your customer base.

Originally Posted by 17LGX

Sounds like a prediction that the millions of GM LGX family engines will be junk before long with no residual value. Those without catch cans will drag down the value of those who bought into the modification to save their engines.

The engines will be fine. The value will not shift based on them. If your keeping your car stock and daily drive it they are useful/not entirely needed if you intend to drive it til it becomes to expensive to fix. If your modding they're a good idea because everything will be working harder including your PCV system.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

its more convincing than the single person with probably the lowest miles on any of the cars being tested. once again, tighten your connections and then post back after 3-4k miles. as for what we have to go off of, currently, 83% have cans that are working and collecting. only 17% don't.



mmmkay, I'll leave that be.



oil being an adhesive and relatively speaking sticky substance...it doesn't matter how much its reduced. it will stay and eventually build up. I mean anyone who has seen any footage of an oil spill knows this. once it sticks to an animal, rocks, etc... it will require cleaning. there is nothing inside the intake tract that will accomplish the cleaning, since port injection used to be "the cleaner" factor. this is a direct injection engine. what this prevents is the coking of the intake valve in long term usage. so for those who plan to keep their car for more than 3-5 years.... its a wise no brainer.




once again, with a stock PCV, you don't miss the oil vapors. they are there. if you are so convinced that it doesn't work, out of logic, you would have returned your setup back to stock and sold those two cans...you said you invested 300$ you could and would easily get 200$ selling em. since you don't get any collection, and you seem to be convinced you don't need em.



no, they actually do. everything I listed is part of the basic working of an engine and how things work. if this is something you don't know about, i'd suggest doing some research on basic mods, and how engines work. I'm not being an a$$hole by saying this, but this really is BASIC engine knowledge.

as for my mods, I've posted before and after timeslips with most of em. if not weight differences for items dealing with rotating mass. see...the difference between my posts, and what you have posted... is you just have theories (some have been false, the definitions have been off, and you post back saying, this isn't what I mean when I say "XXXX").

I've posted, facts, references, and RESULTS. even back to back track days showing the gains, and with most of em, the MPH gains over a span of 14-18 runs...its just common sense, where the lower times came from. the only thing we've truly seen from you is you have a tune, and you claim to drive aggressively. I trust anyone, till given a reason not to, so I take you at your word that you actually do drive fairly aggressive.

feel free to post any real world tests. I truly welcome em. cause the last time I asked for any results, and your reply was you don't go to tracks (which is a solid way to find out if your mods are actually doing something).... and you don't really do any testing.





how can you argue something and be confident on it when you have NEVER tried? a day ago, you were saying blowby doesn't occur in all engines, when that turned out to be the exact opposite of the truth. and I posted plenty of sources saying otherwise. someone who states blowby doesn't occur on all engines, will not have a solid understanding on how a PCV works.

secondly to add to that, you were saying that adding additional vacuum to an engine to suck out oil vapors is gonna hurt the engine. then it was posted multiple times that adding a vacuum of 12-15 inches of vacuum is beneficial in most all engines.

and I just noticed this:




ummmm, the PCV system is closed.... so theres literally ZERO chance of just leaking into the atmosphere. theres no where to leak to. the vacuum is there so that the pressure doesn't build up to the point of blowing oil past critical seals and making sure it gets ingested back into the engine. and that's without additional vaccum. however on a stock PCV system there is no catch can and no real space to add additional vacuum. so that statement was just random and false. once you modify the stock system, then everything that was stock, doesn't really apply. more than likely, anytime something is changed, there will be a different set of values that now apply or are beneficial.




this has already been discussed, and you turned the blind eye to it.

1) if your catch can is there, and actually does its job, then more doesn't go into the intake. it goes into the can.

2) we already know it improves efficiency. how much? all depends.... I've been seeing about 24-36 mpg per tank so far on a full fill up. my acceleration is better, and my TB has been clean a lot longer. once again, I'm reporting my results and what I'm finding. my new setup has been in for about 4k miles now. you surely cant sit there and legit thing saying this or that doesn't or isn't gonna happen, when someone is actually doing it and seeing it first hand. remember, I daily drive, weekend road trips, track and autox. so since sept 11th 2017 to 10-24-17, I have done about 4,300 miles. so my results will def come quicker than most.

3) the reason why theres oil vapor.... is because its been mix with things that are volatile. that's the acids, fuel, moisture that you mentioned earlier.. so that's trapped all in that oil vapor.

so really it actually WOULD increase my oil quality in the pan as the majority (still is liquid form) is at the bottom and isn't getting contaminated by the vapor mixture (its being sucked out). and if that's being sucked out, and not mixing with the majority of the oil pool, then its not being put through the oil passages, bearings, oil pump, etc....

basic logic

The blowby comments I made were because I was referring to blowby as particulate oil getting into the intake vs being collected in the engine by the stock pcv oil separator system. That's not something that is considered normal to harmful levels (ounces worth per oil change for instance).

My blowby wasn't referring to what gets passed piston rings.

The PCV system is not closed. It empties into the intake bridge which has a direct route to the atmosphere back through your air filter. This is why there is a carbon pad in the stock intakes. Vacuum is used to ensure the fumes dont go that direction and instead go into the engine. All it needs to do to operate correctly is allow those gasses to vent ...this still happens without a vacuum.

My comments about increasing the oil you are catching == increasing the oil you're missing is perfectly valid. If your catch can with just two ports (inline to the dirty side tube) is catching X amount of oil. Then you change the can out and all other things being equal, you add the vacuum tap to apply vacuum to the PCV system at levels or times when the stock system wasn't and you are now catching 2x as much oil (just as an example), then you are now missing 2x as much oil as before and it's going into your intake because all catch cans miss a certain amount.

I'm saying that this practice is unnecessary and actually a negative mod. If and only if the 3 port setup leads to catching more oil than the 2 port. if you're not catching any more oil than before then you're fine. But coaxing more oil out of your engine is not what you want.

edit: and I haven't sold my cans because they're not hurting anything by being there. Plus I dont think i'd be able so sell them for more than even half of what they are new. So new it's about 100 bucks for the mishimoto and half that or less for the no-name clean side can. So the potential of making maybe 50 bucks selling them and ending up losing money isn't worth it.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

The blowby comments I made were because I was referring to blowby as particulate oil getting into the intake vs being collected in the engine by the stock pcv oil separator system. That's not something that is considered normal to harmful levels (ounces worth per oil change for instance).

My blowby wasn't referring to what gets passed piston rings.

So youre making stuff up as you go? Thats what blowby actually is... what gets past the piston rings. The same stuff that gets past the rings at pressure, is now the "particulate oil" along with a few more ingredients that have gone past the rings and have vaporized from the heat in the crankcase. Factor that in with the condensation that is heated to vapors once oil reaches operating temps of 212 degrees (boiling point of water). This is why the thermostats are set to 195 in stock form and also what keeps engine oil burning off any condensation once it reaches that temperature. Its done for a reason.

You're killing your own arguement and showing you dont have a grip on what things actually are. So you wing it. Those two things that you're trying to separate are in fact the same exact thing.

Also there is NOT a "stock pcv oil separator system".... the stock PCV throws it ALL back into the engine to be reburned. this is how the valves get mucked up over time. there is nothing there in stock to separate the oil from the air. the oil basically is a "casualty of war" in a sense. its sacrificial and sent back to burn, along with the other fuel vapors, condensation, that have assumed a gaseous form.

However -- and this is where crankcase ventilation comes in -- a certain amount of that mixture of air and gasoline is pulled down by the piston and slips through the piston rings into the crankcase, which is the protective cover that insulates the crankshaft. This escaping gas is called blow-by and it's unavoidable. It's also undesirable because the unburned gasoline in it can gunk up the system and produce problems in the crankcase. Until the early 1960s, these blow-by gases were removed simply by letting air circulate freely through the crankcase, wafting away the gases and venting them as emissions. Then, in the early 1960s, positive crankshaft ventilation (PCV) was invented. This is now considered the beginning of automobile emission control.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/posit...ion-system.htm

The PCV system is not closed. It empties into the intake bridge which has a direct route to the atmosphere back through your air filter. This is why there is a carbon pad in the stock intakes. Vacuum is used to ensure the fumes dont go that direction and instead go into the engine. All it needs to do to operate correctly is allow those gasses to vent ...this still happens without a vacuum.

When the car is running, it never empties through the filter. It is closed off in the sense that it DOES NOT ALLOW IN UNMETERED AIR. its a constant loop through the crankcase, into the engine, and some of what goes through the engine....back to the crankcase. we are past the 1950's and 1960's when it was vented out into the open. Also we aren't talking when the car is off, were talking about when the car is actively on. This is when the system, stock or otherwise, works. Once back in the intake tube, they will head directly towards the tb. Remember the MAF sensor works only when air is flowing from filter to engine. So once the engine is on and the pcv is working it will never flow over the MAF sensor, contrary to your statement of having a "direct route to the atmosphere back through your air filter" (It doesn't go that direction) that is why the MAF sensor is inline BEFORE the pcv inlet to the intake tube. So that it stays relatively clean and can measure airflow.

Not really a "direct route" to go against the opposite way of the flow, when its a one way street...

A crankcase ventilation system is a one way passage for gases to escape in a controlled manner from the crankcase of an internal combustion engine.
This is necessary because internal combustion inevitably involves a small but continual amount of blow-by, which occurs when some of the gases from the combustion leak past the piston rings (that is, blow by them) to end up inside the crankcase, causing pressure to build up in the crank case. For control of the pressure inside it, a PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) valve is used to vent the crankcase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankc...ilation_system

My comments about increasing the oil you are catching == increasing the oil you're missing is perfectly valid. If your catch can with just two ports (inline to the dirty side tube) is catching X amount of oil. Then you change the can out and all other things being equal, you add the vacuum tap to apply vacuum to the PCV system at levels or times when the stock system wasn't and you are now catching 2x as much oil (just as an example), then you are now missing 2x as much oil as before and it's going into your intake because all catch cans miss a certain amount.

Once again you're catching the blowby. Oil vapors are a part of that. But its also the fuel, moisture and corrosive stuff being caught. So yes i am catching more of the harmful stuff. However the clean filtered oil that hasnt vaporized and become contaminated stays at the bottom in the pan.

In comparison to my old 2013 5th gen, this is FAR LESS than the LFX used to have caught in a catch can...so yes...GM has made it so that less is going back through the engine.

I'm saying that this practice is unnecessary and actually a negative mod. If and only if the 3 port setup leads to catching more oil than the 2 port. if you're not catching any more oil than before then you're fine. But coaxing more oil out of your engine is not what you want.

so firstly, can you show any proof its a negative mod. Like have you tried it? Have you even been in a car that has it. talk is cheap. If you wanna say the earth is flat, show me. that's ALL I ask. don't tell me I'm wrong and then show no proof.

But since you cant, or haven't so far...

You clearly have shown you don't have a solid understanding as to what blowby is. You even started this reply showing that you make up your own definitions. So until you learn what it is, the direction of flow of the intake and pcv, you'll keep shooting yourself in the foot. You haven't shown any facts or sources to back up ANY of your claims. Nor used any relative examples.

You've even said you're using a no name clean side can, of which you have never shown, which quite possibly (50/50 chance) might not even have any media inside the can for oil vapors to adhere to and condense (hopefully it does). not all cans are created equally. Especially eBay cans that just have two open ports and an empty can. How would reone expect something to work without the internals that do the work. (if in fact your can is one of these....no one knows...youve kept it such a secret. What are ya hiding? Im being transparent with this.) To me it shows that you just dont get ithe process.

Even saying:

But coaxing more oil out of your engine is not what you want

its not coaxing more oil out...its simply getting more blowby out. The bad stuff that actually contaminates the oil since its mixed with the moisture, fuel and other contaminants that will foul your intake valves over time. But thats not registering in your thought process cause you havent grasped what blowby is, if in fact you can actually admit to yourself by now that it actually occurs in all engines, yet.

edit: and I haven't sold my cans because they're not hurting anything by being there. Plus I dont think i'd be able so sell them for more than even half of what they are new. So new it's about 100 bucks for the mishimoto and half that or less for the no-name clean side can. So the potential of making maybe 50 bucks selling them and ending up losing money isn't worth it.

Not to place any doubt in your mind on your setup. However, if your can isn't catching anything at this point in time because of the fact that you have any kind of a leak or lack of suction that normally in stock form will be there. Then you could in fact be hurting your own engine because your PCV system would not be sucking out the blow by vapors that in stock form were being sucked out. Only time will tell. But this is why I urged you multiple times so far to recheck all of your lines and make sure that you didn't have any initial leaks such as I did when I first installed mine. The time that you have spent replying and still not understanding how the PCV system works or what Blow by actually refers to you could have gone out to your car and corrected anything that has been possibly wrong.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

So much writing why do you hate me so much.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

So much writing why do you hate me so much.

No hate here. Just one of the areas about cars ive learned alot about so its easier to access previous research from when i started looking into it for this car.

[cellsafemode]

I'm kind of over trying to talk to a wall.

PCV systems dont need vacuum to work. They need vacuum to collect emissions. The oil is not going to be "better" because you are "correcting" the stock vacuum setup in how it impacts the pcv system. All you need to do is vent it for it to have all the beneficial aspects of the PCV system.

The stock engine does have an internal oil separator system. This was documented even before the engine was sold. http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lgx/

Two-stage PCV system: this revolutionary system maintains low oil consumption, featuring a pre-separator between the block and the engine’s rear cover and a high-efficiency separator in the center of the block’s “V”.

If the stock system is working correctly within stock power levels, oil condensation in the intake should be minimal to non-existent. However, there are many instances where that's not the case. In those situations, a catch can can capture what the stock system misses.

My argument occurs when you then force a change in the system to apply vacuum where the stock setup did not on a naturally aspirated engine setup. When you do that and start collecting more oil in your can, you're not increasing the efficiency of the catch can, you're just increasing how much oil is flowing into the PCV hose. This means you're increasing how much oil your catch can misses and allows into the intake. This is the opposite of what you want.

Catch cans should solve existing problems, not be setup to generate a problem where one did not exist by increasing the volume of oil it has to separate.

My car never exhibited signs of excessive oil buildup from the pcv system before i added the catch cans and I would completely expect there to not be any oil being collected in the cans after adding them. I have them there just in case things change.

[17LGX]

^^^^^

The LGX in my XT5 does not have even a trace of oil in the stock PCV arrangement with just over 10,000 miles. Most important is to regularly change the oil at less than 4,000 miles (my opinion) and use Full Synthetic (I use Mobil 1) to keep all of the complex valve train mechanisms working at peak efficiency.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I'm kind of over trying to talk to a wall.

yea i agree, you are definitely dense as a wall when it comes to this....cause you've said it best yourself....

I wasn't implying that you were lying.. I'm implying that somehow i'm lying

you admitted that you, yourself, was lying. its cool, most people talk to themselves...its normal. no judgement. I do before a match or a good set at the gym. by post #13 on this thread, I already knew you had no clue as to how anything worked in full, when you mentioned creating blowby and talked about sucking liquids/heavy vapor.

PCV systems dont need vacuum to work. They need vacuum to collect emissions.

a PCV system is there TO collect the blowby (emissions/bad stuff)and cycle them back through the engine. That's its JOB.

and old school crankcase ventilation systems didn't need a vacuum (even though they used tubes that once air was skimmed across the end, it sucked out the blowby in the system - like syphoning anything through a hose...wait that's an atmospheric vacuum) . the POSITIVE in PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) means it uses a vacuum to work. the point of the PCV IS to collect the blowby and put it back through the engine, which really is the whole point of introducing it back in the 60's....emissions. so really the PCV kinda needs the vacuum to do its job.

Else....why would GM connect it to the intake tube to be sucked back in... this isn't hard to understand...well for most.

The oil is not going to be "better" because you are "correcting" the stock vacuum setup in how it impacts the pcv system. All you need to do is vent it for it to have all the beneficial aspects of the PCV system.

your oil stays cleaner as a whole, as a PCV catch can setup takes the contaminants out of the vapor suspension in the crankcase/engine and collects it in the can. this collection makes sure it doesn't mix back in with the engine oil once the engine is off, cools down, and condensation internally occurs (remember, gases go back to solids when they cool down....basic science.)

The stock engine does have an internal oil separator system. This was documented even before the engine was sold. http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lgx/

We've already known this and its usually done with valves and baffles, baffle in the block, and a valve being the PCV valve:

Two-stage PCV system: this revolutionary system maintains low oil consumption, featuring a pre-separator between the block and the engine’s rear cover and a high-efficiency separator in the center of the block’s “V”.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-en...#ixzz4wZOjweGW

that's all cool and dandy, however, I already pointed out in the previous post, that yes...the PCV system is better than the 5th gen. there is less oil/blowby being collected in comparison to the previous 5th gen cars. it clearly states LOW oil consumption... it doesn't say ZERO oil consumption. So in comparison on the 5th gens, 1 quart per 3-5,000 miles was normal (according to most dealers and what we posted on the forums from our own findings). so yea... if its lower than that, GREAT!!!! But it DOES NOT mean it can NOT be improved upon. if you don't believe in improving parts of your car then why would you add mods or even tune your car??? anything can be improved.

That still doesn't address any of the flip flop you've gone back and forth on.

It also DOES NOT ADDRESS the fact that the PCV is still routing blowby back to the intake and pretty much everyone who has a can (even my 2 port in and out mishimotor setup) has caught a measurable amount of oil/blowby.

this is the whole reason WHY we have installed catch cans.... cause blowby still occurs, its still undesireable from any performance standpoint to have it in the combustion chamber for MANY reasons previously listed.

If the stock system is working correctly within stock power levels, oil condensation in the intake should be minimal to non-existent. However, there are many instances where that's not the case. In those situations, a catch can can capture what the stock system misses.

we already know this... however the point of the cans are to keep the oil vapors from condensing on the intake valves. that's the long term issue with direct injection engines. just a fact of the style of engine.

My argument occurs when you then force a change in the system to apply vacuum where the stock setup did not on a naturally aspirated engine setup. When you do that and start collecting more oil in your can, you're not increasing the efficiency of the catch can, you're just increasing how much oil is flowing into the PCV hose. This means you're increasing how much oil your catch can misses and allows into the intake. This is the opposite of what you want.

to start, none of what you just posted is anyone near accurate. in fact, I agree with your previous post of you "implying that you were lying" after reading that.

but since were talking changes theres a lot of changes that can occur when you make an engine more efficient. and some of those include going past what stock had. we add more air when we boost a car, we use an oxidizer in the form of nitrous to increase overall perforamance. even adding the GM intake vs stock causes the car to run lean...which is why it needs a tune...naturally aspirated.


...you've already forced a change in the system on your own car. you tuned the car for more power right? more power usually is met with a bit more blowby... theres a bigger combustion in the cylinders. that's how power is made through tuning. it allows more fuel, or an advancement of spark to create a bigger bang which makes more power.

if someone is boosted, more air and fuel does the same thing.

even if you add boltons, you've now altered the stock setup, so things will change. any change you do to make the car go faster, or more efficient, will change the stock settings. change too much, then a tune is required (think GM intake as most were running lean without the tune.)


and still you're so dense minded... oil doesn't FLOW into the PCV hose or intake.... you'd literally need a siphon tube DIPPED in or extremely near the oil for this to occur from any type of vacuum. even using a vacuum pump at full blast of over 18+ inches of vacuum.

Catch cans should solve existing problems, not be setup to generate a problem where one did not exist by increasing the volume of oil it has to separate.

what problem could you generate? be honest....

the existing problem long term, is keeping the blowby off the intake valves as its recycled back into the engine. which is what Dustya posted pics of his valves. even showed there was a small amount on the valves, but not much. do research on direct injection engines and come back with yet another off explanation, I guess.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

My car never exhibited signs of excessive oil buildup from the pcv system before i added the catch cans and I would completely expect there to not be any oil being collected in the cans after adding them. I have them there just in case things change.

Originally Posted by 17LGX

^^^^^

The LGX in my XT5 does not have even a trace of oil in the stock PCV arrangement with just over 10,000 miles. Most important is to regularly change the oil at less than 4,000 miles (my opinion) and use Full Synthetic (I use Mobil 1) to keep all of the complex valve train mechanisms working at peak efficiency.

ooookay....nothing personal, but to start, 17LGX....the XT5 is a freaking SUV.... who in theeee blue and green hell is going to be driving one of those with anything performance minded. be it canyon runs, AutoX, or a track day??? so even mentioning that after 10k in your car, is kinda a moot point since your SUV for the most part isn't being driven in a performance sense. now I know, there are exceptions to the rule, but lets be real here... most autoX courses don't allow SUV's and I doubt many are going to buy a luxury Cadillac SUV and run it like someone would a SRT8 Cherokee....


now for the both of you....even if you did run that big SUV hard, like at a track and agressive street racing....6-7/10ths or more.... no build up at such low mileage is gonna be excessive. no one said anything about excessive oil build up mainly and especially when you have an engine with about 10,000 miles on it. nothing will be excessive. which I why I used the analogy of "its like looking for plaque in the arteries of a NEWBORN". this isn't rocket science. it should be common sense when your car is new its not going to have severe problems. however over time, that's when they show. come tell us how your valves look at about 40-50K. until then....

I do agree using a good oil is HIGHLY beneficial. however changing the oil at less than 4000 miles, especially synthetic.... not exactly needed. i'd post some of my oil analysis paper that I get done after each oil change showing you can go FAR longer, than 4,000 miles on a quality synthetic and still have a decent amount of oil and additive life left.... but I'm sure most would be confused and not know how to read an oil analysis sample.


Lastly, since you still don't know how the system works:

Positive crankcase ventilation involves recycling these gases through a valve (called, appropriately, the PCV valve) to the intake manifold, where they're pumped back into the cylinders for another shot at combustion. It isn't always desirable to have these gases in the cylinders because they tend to be mostly air and can make the gas-air mixture in the cylinders a little too lean -- that is, too low on gasoline -- for effective combustion. So the blow-by gases should only be recycled when the car is traveling at slow speeds or idling. Fortunately, when the engine is idling the air pressure in the intake manifold is lower than the air pressure in the crankcase, and it's this lower pressure (which sometimes approaches pure vacuum) that sucks the blow-by gases through the PCV valve and back into the intake. When the engine speeds up, the air pressure in the intake manifold increases and the suction slows down, reducing the amount of blow-by gas recycled to the cylinders. This is good, because the blow-by gases aren't needed when the engine speeds up. In fact, when the car is up to speed, the pressure in the intake manifold can actually become higher than the pressure in the crankcase, potentially forcing the blow-by gases back into the crankcase. Since the whole point of positive crankcase ventilation is to keep these gases out of the crankcase, the PCV valve is designed to close off when this happens and block the backflow of gases.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/posit...ion-system.htm

the second part in BOLD is why the vacuum is added. as said many times before, at speed, is when the PCV additional vacuum is beneficial. because the blowby gases ARENT being sucked out to go back in the intake and then engine cylinders. it more or less sits in the crankcase until you are back at idle.

so for those of us, who actually drive fast or with some gusto, (if you have a supercharger or boost, its a given you will) or race (autoX, PDX, HPDE, and drag track days) the additional vacuum benefits by constantly keeping the blowby, otherwise stuck in the crankcase when engine speed increases, going into the can...to be condensed and cleaned from the intake suction. that way it allows less collection onto the intake valves over time. By doing this you don't get the "normal amounts" of blowby into the intake and combustion chambers. and with less of that going back through, that space can be taken up with clean air, fuel, etc...the things that increase power/efficiency.


At this point, I honestly don't care what you do with your car. I'm not selling you or anyone else anything. I don't sell cans. or any other car parts. but I use what works, because I like my car to be competitive in the events I go to and any benefits I can validate, I'll add em to my car. if they don't work, I don't waste my time, money, or effort on em.

believe what you want. the rest of us will be posting up results. You know... the people on here that actually do the testing and actually run our cars hard and show the results (be it negative or positive). while you can continue to be the cynic that doesn't have ANY experience with these things but claims to know how those things work and tell guys who otherwise could learn, that they don't work or its wrong with explanations that aren't correct.

as it stands, all the "additions" I've made to my car over the last 2 months have proved beneficial to performance. theres blowby caught in the can, my intake & TB is cleaner than it has been (just cleaned my MAF sensor the day I had my fuel trim reset by ETMX183 whos one of the fastest LFX guys on the forums at camarofest) and performance has increased, def shown at the last autoX of this year (posted vids of that too). so its purely laughable how you can say what I've done with my own car doesn't work, when I've been experiencing the gains over the last 2 months... you speak about stuff you have no experience with. I speak about the results that ive had on the car with the additions in question... food for thought.

on that note...I leave you with this:

[Evil-Bee-NH]

So many words.... head exploding...