[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by 2.0t_godfather

At some point ZZPsteve will help you out with a breakdown on pricing for parts. Sorry I missed the dyno tune. So another $500 or so. The comparison was drawn between this and an ss. With mods the SS would need a tune also, so its still comparing apples to apples. And I have always stated in parts. I hate to break it to you, but I've worked on that car too. I've been a tech since I was 16, ASE master at 20. I was at ZZP almost daily working on it all last summer. When it was at paint, I was there working on it too. I have never claimed to be the one that drove to time xxx, simply posting that its been done. And what am I selling exactly? Unless it's guns, ammo, gun parts, or tools it didnt come from me. Now in a few months if you'd like to buy a track setup alignment or high end tires and wheels, I'd be more than happy to help you. For someone that has done so much "research" you seem to know very little. Matt always gets first passes to datalog and make adjustments. Then I run it. There is typically less than .1th between my times and theirs. We usually swap to lightest driver for best time, its not rocket science. I usually cut the best 60ft times. The only people that have driven that car at the track is me, Steve or Matt. Steve is the lightest between us, so he usually gets best times. And when we go to the track, I bring my ZL1. I don't know where my skills rate, but no one else drives that car because its a handful, and I offer every time. If I remember right it was one of the only cars that scared Steve. I've put 14k miles on that car pounding on it sideways and kept it in one piece.

That's cool so you turn a wrench I can respect that. But don't say and I quote "I drive the car every time it goes out, with the exception of an issue coming up." When you haven't for any of the actual record passes that get tossed around on FB or YouTube. I don't need steve to write me down the cost on the parts I can visit the website for that and I can source cost for the drag pack setup with the 15" conversion and ZL1 Tank easy enough. 6k is lowballing the cost people who don't have access to a shop all the tools and equipment like you had they will pay astronomically more probably another 4k between install and tuning and your car isn't even street drivable anymore for daily use back and forth. I'm sure you take it out from time to time when it's not being worked on but the average person on here and FB dailies their 2.0T Camaro they don't have another option like some. Your claim on the V8 is way off as well sure your car is in the 10s now but I see dozens of 6th Gen V8's with DRs and only an E85 Tune in the low 11s where your cars CF8 pass was consistently. So like you said apples to oranges but there's a huge price gap and we won't even get into the drivability gap.

[Austin_504]

[lawguy85]

Originally Posted by Chris V

Congrats on the build, but:



Don't tell that to the Whipple charged 1LE in my garage

I've never seen a whipple for < $6k, but, to your point, you could get similar numbers from Weapon X or ECS for under $6k if you wrench yourself, so OP was stretching the truth a bit. Cool build nontheless.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

I've never seen a whipple for < $6k, but, to your point, you could get similar numbers from Weapon X or ECS for under $6k if you wrench yourself, so OP was stretching the truth a bit. Cool build nontheless.

Back in the 5th gen days you could get 500whp with just a cam, bolt ons and a tune. Talking like $3k... Is that not the case with the Gen V anymore?

[Chris V]

Originally Posted by lawguy85

I've never seen a whipple for < $6k, but, to your point, you could get similar numbers from Weapon X or ECS for under $6k if you wrench yourself, so OP was stretching the truth a bit. Cool build nontheless.

Weapon-X group buy earlier this year

And yes, had to spin my own wrenches, but with a modification it's better that way since you're more familiar with it when something inevitably goes wrong.

[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Back in the 5th gen gays you could get 500whp with just a cam, bolt ons and a tune. Talking like $3k... Is that not the case with the Gen V anymore?

Most of the builds on gen 6 cars that are 500-540whp require heads, cam, headers, e85. using Livernios as the gauge:


Cheapest set of heads for 6.2 they have are $2500, head gaskets and bolts 250

Cam package: (cam 500, springs 449, pushrods 280)

Headers 1300
e85 225
tune 400
cai 280 (cheapest one)



Thats $6184 Using cheap stuff.



Or a procharger kit is 5978 that will make around same whp.



That doesn't take into account the extra weight under the hood from adding the super or the approx 300lb curb weight difference out of the box. The guys at higher power levels have more stuff done and in turn have more money in their car. At I said, our current setup will go further. None of these parts are installed. Im willing to wager the labor between the ss build and the 2.0 are about the same.

[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

That's cool so you turn a wrench I can respect that. But don't say and I quote "I drive the car every time it goes out, with the exception of an issue coming up." When you haven't for any of the actual record passes that get tossed around on FB or YouTube. I don't need steve to write me down the cost on the parts I can visit the website for that and I can source cost for the drag pack setup with the 15" conversion and ZL1 Tank easy enough. 6k is lowballing the cost people who don't have access to a shop all the tools and equipment like you had they will pay astronomically more probably another 4k between install and tuning and your car isn't even street drivable anymore for daily use back and forth. I'm sure you take it out from time to time when it's not being worked on but the average person on here and FB dailies their 2.0T Camaro they don't have another option like some. Your claim on the V8 is way off as well sure your car is in the 10s now but I see dozens of 6th Gen V8's with DRs and only an E85 Tune in the low 11s where your cars CF8 pass was consistently. So like you said apples to oranges but there's a huge price gap and we won't even get into the drivability gap.

I wasnt at cf8 but form what I'm told the e85 6th gens on dr were running mid 12s when the 2.0 was running 11.17s. If I remember seeing the lists right it was like 14 or 15th fastest car there. You can't compare results at a high da with shitty weather conditions to cars in better ones. That same setup came home and ran 10s with zero changes. As for driveability, the car has been excellent.



Not sure what your point is on being able to take car out much. It's been used for continuous development. A Guy could buy the parts, take a weekend and be done and enjoy the car for the indefinite future. The most specialized tool was maybe the valve spring compressor? Honestly most things I feel are pretty basic.



Lastly there will never be a time when I say "I" or "me" especially on this car. It's "us" and "we". A complete team effort from some very talented people whose efforts are going to result in stage kits that everyone can own. The path to power is being cut, and the basic camaro owner will be the one who benefits from it.

[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

That's cool so you turn a wrench I can respect that. But don't say and I quote "I drive the car every time it goes out, with the exception of an issue coming up." When you haven't for any of the actual record passes that get tossed around on FB or YouTube. I don't need steve to write me down the cost on the parts I can visit the website for that and I can source cost for the drag pack setup with the 15" conversion and ZL1 Tank easy enough.

If I am at the track with the car I make passes in it too, unless I'm not there or it breaks. Steve typically gets seat time too. And as I've said several times, the suspension is stock. There is not drag pack or anything else on the rear. From doing all that research you should know this. There are 17in wheels on the back, but I'm willing to bet the 2.0 cars may be able to fit 15s with the small brakes they have. Never tried it.

[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by raflyer

Congrats on the 500whp.......but i want to know more details about your 2.0 ATS AWD that was in the 11's. I know its gone now and replaced with the V but why all the secrecy in that car? Ive asked over and over what limits did guys find in the various driveline components? No answer, why?

Sorry, but I havent had an ATS. That would be a question for Matt or Steve.

[dpelow07]

i daily drive my drag pack no issues at all

[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by dpelow07

i daily drive my drag pack no issues at all

The zzp cams seem pretty mild on these motors. So far the bigger turbos arent that laggy either. The z54 was amazing. Thats what I would recommend for 99% of the mod community. Stock like spool and great power. It worked to 450whp. I havent driven the s257 yet so I don't have an opinion.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by 2.0t_godfather

The zzp cams seem pretty mild on these motors. So far the bigger turbos arent that laggy either. The z54 was amazing. Thats what I would recommend for 99% of the mod community. Stock like spool and great power. It worked to 450whp. I havent driven the s257 yet so I don't have an opinion.

Granted i haven’t run them, and never will, the cam specs don’t seem much more aggressive than stock. IMO you’re paying for the fuel lobe. They should start selling just an intake can with a modified fuel lobe like the cobalt days, I bet people would buy a lot of that.

I wasn’t going to dig this hole, but at this point, I figure what the hell. You keep saying 6k, but every time we turn around zzsteve drops some bombshell that your car has experimental parts on it that most normal people can’t even get yet. Are these figured into your 6k price?? This car has changed more parts than I change my underwear. The z54? $1000 minimum, can’t get. Experimental head studs? $2-300? Can’t get. The LT1 hpfp? $700-1000. Can’t get. Do you have the experimental balance shafts? Normal guy can’t get. The 5th gen zl1 pump in 6th gen guts or whatever in your tank? $500-800 bucks. Can’t get.

Bottom line, you’ve got a lot of extra shit that any regular joe can not get at this time thats possibly not accounted for in your “I/we built this for 6k” price tag. Or is it accounted for? But people just can’t get it, so it hardly counts as a build that anyone could simply do by ordering all the parts off the zzp website.

Someone would have to have a deep pocket to get said unobtainable parts at this point. You just happen to whore out your car for experiments, which works to your advantage. Granted they are viable experiments, most of them can’t be obtained by the average joe.



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[2.0t_godfather]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

I wasn’t going to dig this hole, but at this point, I figure what the hell. You keep saying 6k, but every time we turn around zzsteve drops some bombshell that your car has experimental parts on it that most normal people can’t even get yet. Are these figured into your 6k price?? This car has changed more parts than I change my underwear. The z54? $1000 minimum, can’t get. Experimental head studs? $2-300? Can’t get. The LT1 hpfp? $700-1000. Can’t get. Do you have the experimental balance shafts? Normal guy can’t get. The 5th gen zl1 pump in 6th gen guts or whatever in your tank? $500-800 bucks. Can’t get.

Bottom line, you’ve got a lot of extra shit that any regular joe can not get at this time thats possibly not accounted for in your “I/we built this for 6k” price tag. Or is it accounted for? But people just can’t get it, so it hardly counts as a build that anyone could simply do by ordering all the parts off the zzp website.

Someone would have to have a deep pocket to get said unobtainable parts at this point. You just happen to whore out your car for experiments, which works to your advantage. Granted they are viable experiments, most of them can’t be obtained by the average joe.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I kinda figured you knew better than to dig yourself a hole looking misinformed trying to launch parts on the platform, but hey its cool.


Car has had several different parts to shake out what works and what does not. THE CAR HAS A STOCK HPFP. I REPEAT STOCK. The only experimental part on the Z54 setup was the balance shafts. Not to step on any toes, but I don't think they are needed at that power level. The head studs are working their way into production. So those will be popping up soon unless I'm mistaken. The Z54 requires a small amount of modification. ATS guys have been running them. Aside from that, here is the parts needed to make a 10 second pass. And wouldn't you know, it comes out to 6k. Its interesting having people argue positions on this. I have access to pretty much all the info, so why would I take a position on something that I know is wrong? Now this is me talking, not ZZP. But everything I have claimed, stated or anything has happened just about exactly how I said it would. I learned a long time ago if you aren't 100% sure about something keep your mouth shut. My point was always to help grow this community and help others make their cars go fast, not squabble over stupid shit with people who I know are wrong working off partial information. Its a waste of time. Now if I was full of shit and nothing I've said was proven, I'd understand the bickering. Anyone that has ever PM'd me for info has gotten their answer. I don't have any horses in this race. I'm not selling parts or anything else. I have nothing to gain or to lose by helping. Sorry if I come off arrogant, rude or a dick. I've always been a facts guy. I'm willing to learn, and keep moving forward. I don't have time for egos or bs, it's unproductive. These cars are going to be the future of hot rodding for a generation. I want to see kids hanging out with their friend and racing, not sitting in their parents basements playing video games until they are 30. I am more that willing to help and share the info that I am allowed to share. Hopefully this finally puts the nonsense to bed and we can get back to doing productive things like making cars go fast and hurting feelings.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Don't forget the 17" Slicks and skinnies. The E85 Tune and all that's involved with it.