[snicko]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Any chance you are simply entering corners with a little too much speed and therefore inducing understeer?

The 1LE has a lot of grip, but if you go in too fast, there isn't a lot you can do at that point to increase the rotation. You can't rotate the car with the throttle (or via trail braking for that matter) IF the front tires are already beyond their limit of lateral grip.

I mean.. maybe? But I'm not entirely sure about that. I feel like I'm coming into a corner with a reasonable amount of speed for the expected grip. I don't feel like I'm overdriving the front - it just feels like the mid corner front grip isn't there and it kinda washes to the outside of the corner on exit..

[snicko]

Originally Posted by JRL1LE

" A few notes about RACE mode: I approach this mode as a tool to go faster meaning that I think specifically about it when I go to WOT and I try to change or optimize my throttle application point and steering to help the computer do its job. It can do the job better than me but only if I give it good information. A specific example is how I unwind the steering wheel mid corner and as the corner opens up. When learning to drive on track it is good practice to automatically unwind the steering wheel as you apply throttle regardless of the vehicle response (a string tied from throttle toe to steering wheel is the analogy used by some instructors). The problem in RACE PTM is that by doing that you are telling the car you are ready to go straight. It will add power and drive you to a wider line. The best results are found by holding the wheel as steady as you can and pointing the car to corner exit only when it’s time. Obviously you have to be ready to correct for overslip but as you gain trust you will find this is required less often than it feels at first. It is very useful to practice using PTM in the lower modes where you can focus on letting the car go where you point it and not correcting your steering too early."

This is the key point, unwinding the wheel while also adding throttle doesn't work well with the PTM and ELSD. I've tracked and autoxed Camaro's and Covette's for over 20 years. When I bought a 2017 SS 1LE, i had the same issues exiting corners. I changed alignment settings to try to make it better but then realized, just have to point it straight then add throttle. No spectacular power slides, but it is fast.

Just my experiences w/ the SS1LE and now my C7 Grand Sport.

I read that same post and that's what's got me wondering if my learned driving style isn't working with TPM.

So instead of opening the wheel and throttle at the same time - you point the car at the outside of the corner at the apex and apply throttle?

[snicko]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

PTM is fantastic at getting you out of the corners fast. Once you’re fairly happy with where the nose is pointing, you can just nail the throttle in a way which would get you in trouble in other cars.

Also for mid corner push a little trail brake does wonders. 1LE has a TON of mechanical grip. I found weight transfer to the front is key to avoid the light push the car sometimes exhibits.

Hmm.. trail braking. I'm a bit conditioned to stay the f' away from trail braking - I learned a very nose heavy, solid axle RWD V8 cars where use of the rear brake was rewarded handsomely with a quick 180 spin. I'll give that a shot in the next weekend and see. Definitely not something that I'm used to doing in large amounts...

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by snicko

Hmm.. trail braking. I'm a bit conditioned to stay the f' away from trail braking - I learned a very nose heavy, solid axle RWD V8 cars where use of the rear brake was rewarded handsomely with a quick 180 spin. I'll give that a shot in the next weekend and see. Definitely not something that I'm used to doing in large amounts...

IME trail braking is necessary to weight the car properly and initiate rotation, @N Camarolina described it well. and I'd add the transition to throttle should be quick, get on the throttle immediately after the brakes are fully released.

I added a much stiffer front roll bar and slightly softer rear bar (Hotchkis ft/ZLE rear). Stock, the car likes to throw it's a$$ out a bit much in AutoX slaloms and tighter turns... it's entertaining and gives the car character but the change I made allows for more aggressive trail braking and allows you go get to WOT faster, and the rear end doesn't step out as much and hit cones, lol.

I recently got a sim rig, Automobilista 2 has the GT4.R Camaro on it, a $250k race car. On that sim, you are trail braking HARD right into the apex and then immediately transitioning to throttle to maintain the slip angle caused by your trail braking. You can get from full braking and back to WOT incredibly quickly. Our cars may not be GT4.Rs, but IME the concept is applicable.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by snicko

Hmm.. trail braking. I'm a bit conditioned to stay the f' away from trail braking - I learned a very nose heavy, solid axle RWD V8 cars where use of the rear brake was rewarded handsomely with a quick 180 spin. I'll give that a shot in the next weekend and see. Definitely not something that I'm used to doing in large amounts...

Watch some of the fast PDR videos in the best track times thread ( https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512725 ) and you will see the drivers trail braking well into many turns (red bar on the overlay). The Camaro definitely rewards trail braking. Just note that PTM Race and PTM Sport 2 will not help you if you oversteer on corner entry, only on corner exit. Here are 2 examples from another driver in a ZLE at my home track in Houston:

https://youtu.be/KQl09CYyO5A

https://youtu.be/oAUHzpHe3fM

Also note that the amount of brake pedal used for trail braking as seen on the PDR overlay depends on the brake pads used. Race pads will probably require less pedal for the same amount of braking force compared to stock pads.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by snicko

Hmm.. trail braking. I'm a bit conditioned to stay the f' away from trail braking - I learned a very nose heavy, solid axle RWD V8 cars where use of the rear brake was rewarded handsomely with a quick 180 spin. I'll give that a shot in the next weekend and see. Definitely not something that I'm used to doing in large amounts...

A word of caution here: The faster the corner, the less trail braking you use. Trail braking high speed corners (~ 100+ mph) can easily upset the car balance and cause abrupt oversteer.

Best to practice this on the low speed corners where track barriers are not nearby.

[Briland_1LE]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

IME trail braking is necessary to weight the car properly and initiate rotation, @N Camarolina described it well. and I'd add the transition to throttle should be quick, get on the throttle immediately after the brakes are fully released.

I added a much stiffer front roll bar and slightly softer rear bar (Hotchkis ft/ZLE rear). Stock, the car likes to throw it's a$$ out a bit much in AutoX slaloms and tighter turns... it's entertaining and gives the car character but the change I made allows for more aggressive trail braking and allows you go get to WOT faster, and the rear end doesn't step out as much and hit cones, lol.

I recently got a sim rig, Automobilista 2 has the GT4.R Camaro on it, a $250k race car. On that sim, you are trail braking HARD right into the apex and then immediately transitioning to throttle to maintain the slip angle caused by your trail braking. You can get from full braking and back to WOT incredibly quickly. Our cars may not be GT4.Rs, but IME the concept is applicable.

Interesting I haven't heard someone mention this before. So you were able to put on a slightly softer rear sway bar and get an improvement in rear end grip? What is the downside, the car will want to understeer a little more in some scenarios?

[JRL1LE]

Originally Posted by snicko

I read that same post and that's what's got me wondering if my learned driving style isn't working with TPM.

So instead of opening the wheel and throttle at the same time - you point the car at the outside of the corner at the apex and apply throttle?

Yes, that seems to work better, and also trail braking as others have suggested to get more rotation, to allow earlier throttle application.

[khcoaching]

PTM is not going to allow the rear to break loose. If the OP wants the car to rotate on the throttle, it would have to be with the nannies off.

That said, in both my SLE and ZLE, using PTM race can give great lap times, though I think having it off is ultimately faster if you practice proper throttle control.

Ken

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Briland_1LE

Interesting I haven't heard someone mention this before. So you were able to put on a slightly softer rear sway bar and get an improvement in rear end grip? What is the downside, the car will want to understeer a little more in some scenarios?

Strangely enough, even with a much stiffer front and softer rear bar, the handling balance isn't that different vs stock, but I'm also at 3.5 degrees camber up front which probably compensates.

For AutoX, I'm also running the GMPP AutoX diff tune, which reduces corner entry understeer by opening the rear diff very quickly on turn-in, and it also locks up very quickly on-throttle.

[snicko]

Originally Posted by JRL1LE

Yes, that seems to work better, and also trail braking as others have suggested to get more rotation, to allow earlier throttle application.

Thanks for the ideas / suggestions y'all. I'll be at Sonoma this weekend. They are running the chute config which I've never done before.

I'll report back with how it went with everyone's suggestions!