[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Msquared

After having the BMR front bar on my SS 1LE for a long time on the softest setting and no problems with the bushings, I decided to try out the medium setting for autocross use. Somewhere in the middle of my second event on that setting, one bushing blew out just like the others in this thread. So the different setting clearly makes the difference between staying intact and failing. That is not surprising.

I recently acquired the Hotchkis front bar as well. I still really want to keep the BMR on the car if possible, in order to run a near-stock front roll stiffness when I want. But the Hotchkis comes with a different style of bushing and a gusseted steel bracket. The Hotchkis bushing is almost the same overall width as the BMR bushing, so I'm trying the Hotchkis bushing/bracket on the BMR bar. We'll see how that goes. One would think the Hotchkis bushing/bracket is up to the task, since the softest setting on their front bar is about the same as the middle setting on the BMR bar.

PS - The BMR bushing comes with "5354" engraved in its side, but it crosses to the Energy Suspension 9.5172 bushing kit (the only way I know to buy it). The Hotchkis bushing comes with "5637 engraved on it, but I can't find what bushing/bracket that comes in. Where can replacement bushings for the Hotchkis bar be found? Also, if someone could find that bushing and bracket in a reasonably priced kit, that might be a good fix for the BMR issue.

You won’t have any issues with the hotchkiss bar bushings. I ran the bar for a year using the soft and the middle setting, which is pretty stiff. I put the stock bar back in as I didn’t like the understeer it created on turn in and steady state cornering. That’s with sq tire setup. I got it to help with our exit oversteer issue, which did help some with Nannie’s off, set in the mid setting, but trying to get through a slalom or a Chicago box was brutal and killed cones as the understeer was to great. The soft setting was better but still not to my liking. I would say the soft setting steering response was similar to the stock bar with the stock staggered tires. I use the stock tires on the street and understeer obviously is worse, it’s not bad for normal driving , but you notice it. That setup on a cruise in the mountains is very restrictive and you have to slow it down.
That being said and with a sq setup, it seems to be surface dependent. Myself and others have found on a supper grippy surface a stiffer bar works well, a scca friend has it on mid setting, camber spread and psi to help counter the understeer some and does really well. But on my no grip old worn out lot the bigger bar is to much. I am much happier with the stock bar. Funny thing is, in fast tight slaloms the car rolls no less with the stiff bar vs stock, and no worse then when I ride in a friends zle. As a side note for info, I now just started running 305/30/19 Nankangs, they are great, good turn in and so far no exit oversteer with Nannie’s off, super grip also, took 1/2 seconds off the re71s on a tight all turns 43 second course.

[Katech_Zach]

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=...681&superpro=0

I dont know if any of you have seen these, but they offer an upgraded billet/delrin sway bar mount. This would resolve the issue

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Katech_Zach

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=...681&superpro=0

I dont know if any of you have seen these, but they offer an upgraded billet/delrin sway bar mount. This would resolve the issue

Yeah, it would, but it costs more than the front bar kit itself, and the bar should have come with non-exploding bushings and brackets in the first place! If it turns out that the bushing and bracket from the Hotchkis kit hold up, then that could be the cheap solution. That would depend on someone figuring out how to buy just those bushings and brackets separate from the Hotchkis, bar, though.

[Msquared]

There's also this billet mount, which appears to work with the same bushing that comes with the BMR bar. However, in addition to being stiffer than the BMR bracket, it appears to wrap under the bushing and support the little beveled bottom corners, which should help keep the bushing intact.

Hotckis has their own take on that same part.

[Badmojo]

The BMR billet mounts didn't solve my problem of splitting bushings. I think the bushing material just can't reliably take the loads.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

The BMR billet mounts didn't solve my problem of splitting bushings. I think the bushing material just can't reliably take the loads.

The BMR billet mounts come with a Delrin bushing that is different in shape than the urethane bushings that come with the bar. You're saying those don't hold either?

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by Msquared

The BMR billet mounts come with a Delrin bushing that is different in shape than the urethane bushings that come with the bar. You're saying those don't hold either?

I have run the billet mount you reference here for over a year with no issues. That combo for me holds up fine after probably 20 track events and I daily drive the car as as well.

[Badmojo]

Originally Posted by Msquared

The BMR billet mounts come with a Delrin bushing that is different in shape than the urethane bushings that come with the bar. You're saying those don't hold either?

This was two years ago and they used the same poly bushings from Energy Suspension. The bushings failed identical to the stamped brackets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

This was two years ago and they used the same poly bushings from Energy Suspension. The bushings failed identical to the stamped brackets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Oh, that's interesting! Those must have been the same as the ones I linked that were not on BMR's site. Okay, good to know to avoid brackets that use that same bushing, which seems to be inherently weak.

[Msquared]

I posted most of this a new thread, but it occurred to me that I should update this thread since this is kind of the main one about BMR adjustable front bars:

Eventually, I got the same problem everyone else has had with their front bushings being squished out of the brackets. As long as you have the bar set on its softest setting, it doesn't seem to hurt the bushings; but set on medium of full stiff and they get pounded out in short order. The problem seems to be that the bracket and bushing design together are not rigid enough to withstand some of the loads being placed on them. If you notice the taper at the based of the bushing and the fact that the bracket is really just a sheet-metal strap, it's not hard to understand why.

I found my solution: use the bushings and brackets from the Hotchkis bar. The brackets and bushings from the Hotchkis bar fit the BMR fine. The bushing has a full-width "base" and the brackets have little gussets that seem to stiffen them up quite a bit in multiple force vectors. They have held up to a full season of autocross and track use with my BMR bar set on the middle setting.

I was able to buy replacement poly bushings direct from Hotchkis (to keep a spare set with me in case they are needed during an event, but haven't need them yet). I'm sure they are Energy Suspension pieces, and they have the number 5637 cast into them. I'm sure the brackets are ES parts also, but I haven't needed to search for them because I had them already. It may be easier to buy those direct from Hotchkis as well.

*The Hotchkis bar has the same outer diameter as the BMR (1.25"), but it's wall thickness is greater and therefore it's a stiffer bar. I prefer the range of the BMR bar for my purposes because the softest setting is about the same as the stock SS 1LE (FE4) front bar, and then I have two stiffer settings from there.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I posted most of this a new thread, but it occurred to me that I should update this thread since this is kind of the main one about BMR adjustable front bars:

Eventually, I got the same problem everyone else has had with their front bushings being squished out of the brackets. As long as you have the bar set on its softest setting, it doesn't seem to hurt the bushings; but set on medium of full stiff and they get pounded out in short order. The problem seems to be that the bracket and bushing design together are not rigid enough to withstand some of the loads being placed on them. If you notice the taper at the based of the bushing and the fact that the bracket is really just a sheet-metal strap, it's not hard to understand why.

I found my solution: use the bushings and brackets from the Hotchkis bar. The brackets and bushings from the Hotchkis bar fit the BMR fine. The bushing has a full-width "base" and the brackets have little gussets that seem to stiffen them up quite a bit in multiple force vectors. They have held up to a full season of autocross and track use with my BMR bar set on the middle setting.

I was able to buy replacement poly bushings direct from Hotchkis (to keep a spare set with me in case they are needed during an event, but haven't need them yet). I'm sure they are Energy Suspension pieces, and they have the number 5637 cast into them. I'm sure the brackets are ES parts also, but I haven't needed to search for them because I had them already. It may be easier to buy those direct from Hotchkis as well.

*The Hotchkis bar has the same outer diameter as the BMR (1.25"), but it's wall thickness is greater and therefore it's a stiffer bar. I prefer the range of the BMR bar for my purposes because the softest setting is about the same as the stock SS 1LE (FE4) front bar, and then I have two stiffer settings from there.

GREAT TIP!! No doubt that Hotchkis part is LESS EXPENSIVE than that BILLET piece (cost 310.00) from BMR!!! Hopefully Hotchkiss has their supply issues rectified by now.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by sr71bb

GREAT TIP!! No doubt that Hotchkis part is LESS EXPENSIVE than that BILLET piece (cost 310.00) from BMR!!! Hopefully Hotchkiss has their supply issues rectified by now.

I agree. Two years of autocross with the hotchkiss bar set soft( BMR middle) and hotchkiss middle at 25% more and no issues. Only thing to worry about is car setup and how much steady state corner understeer you can take with a bigger bar. Square tire setup understeer is there in the middle, but not bad and works great on a bigger more open course. On a tight small autocross course with all turns it’s a bit much, and slower. I use soft setting then. Stiffer bar isn’t doing anything bad per see, it’s just doing what a big bar does if you have it only on the front and not added a rear bar to match(Scca F class rules) Soft setting is pretty close to stock staggered with stock bar in feel and response with the benefit of flatter faster turn in, great in slaloms and getting the power to the rear tires where I never have oversteer or the weird EDiff issues.

[Joey Soul]

Ive had the hotchkis bar for years and never ran into an issue, tracked pretty hard

[h018871]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I posted most of this a new thread, but it occurred to me that I should update this thread since this is kind of the main one about BMR adjustable front bars:

Eventually, I got the same problem everyone else has had with their front bushings being squished out of the brackets. As long as you have the bar set on its softest setting, it doesn't seem to hurt the bushings; but set on medium of full stiff and they get pounded out in short order. The problem seems to be that the bracket and bushing design together are not rigid enough to withstand some of the loads being placed on them. If you notice the taper at the based of the bushing and the fact that the bracket is really just a sheet-metal strap, it's not hard to understand why.

I found my solution: use the bushings and brackets from the Hotchkis bar. The brackets and bushings from the Hotchkis bar fit the BMR fine. The bushing has a full-width "base" and the brackets have little gussets that seem to stiffen them up quite a bit in multiple force vectors. They have held up to a full season of autocross and track use with my BMR bar set on the middle setting.

I was able to buy replacement poly bushings direct from Hotchkis (to keep a spare set with me in case they are needed during an event, but haven't need them yet). I'm sure they are Energy Suspension pieces, and they have the number 5637 cast into them. I'm sure the brackets are ES parts also, but I haven't needed to search for them because I had them already. It may be easier to buy those direct from Hotchkis as well.

*The Hotchkis bar has the same outer diameter as the BMR (1.25"), but it's wall thickness is greater and therefore it's a stiffer bar. I prefer the range of the BMR bar for my purposes because the softest setting is about the same as the stock SS 1LE (FE4) front bar, and then I have two stiffer settings from there.

Good news Matt
Do you have the part number for the bushing kit to order from Hotchkis? Both I and Phastek have been trying to contact Hotchis without success.

As an aside, the energy suspension PN for the BMR bracket/bushing is 9.5172R (red) or 9.5172G (black). I've not had any issues with the BMR set on my rear bar other than the bushing is too big for the bracket. The bottom, flat, needs to be cut down slightly or washers added between the mounting bracket and frame. No failure of the bushing material to date.

Would you post a link to the other thread you reference?