[flatrockguy]

It's the price you pay to play! If you want good gas mileage and no GG tax buy a cruze. Even with the gg tax you are getting one of the best bang for the buck performance cars out there. I for one have never even batted an eye over the mileage or GG tax on my CTS-V or ZL1. Ya it sucks to pay tax on a car that you are already going to buy more fuel for and premium at that, but every time I fire up my ZL1 and hammer down all those costs are long gone

[Jimmytt6]

Originally Posted by Sven59

It is a performance car and they tuned the tranny for performance not gas mileage. What is more impressive 25mpg or 7:29 at the ring?

Thank you...

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Sven59

The 5th gen does start in second in D.

Yup, I remember that. I just wonder if the A10 does....I would think so...

[Zeke.Malvo]

How does the '14 GT500, with essentially the same power, transmission, and weight manage 15/24 mpg? This, with a modular engine based out of the 90's. The LT4 is an all new engine in a generation less than 3 years old, with technologies such as variable valve timing and skip shift, and it gets 14/20?

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

How does the '14 GT500, with essentially the same power, transmission, and weight manage 15/24 mpg? This, with a modular engine based out of the 90's. The LT4 is an all new engine in a generation less than 3 years old, with technologies such as variable valve timing and skip shift, and it gets 14/20?

I alluded to it in my previous post. It has 3.31 rear gears (M6 ZL1 has 3.73) Ford changed the transmission gearing in the 13-14 GT500 to help with mpg (and hit 202 mph) to avoid the GG.

[clanky]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

The EPA test is extremely structured and data-driven...certain portions of the test call for % throttle inputs, and specific time periods. One of the only variables is the manufacturer-supplied coefficient of drag to correct the lab results into "real world" numbers.

So it's nearly impossible for the tax and FE rating to be the result of an excited driver.


Thank you!


Like this? See below for another point on fuel economy comparisons...

Attachment 844143



No...in fact, some studies have proposed that the GG tax (outdated theory from the 70s) has actually driven consumers towards SUVs...which are exempt from the tax...and therefore boosted the SUV and Truck trend in the United States.

For reference...Z06 fuel economy figures:

7-speed M: 15 city / 22 hwy.....18mpg average (EPA figure, no GG tax)
8-speed A: 13 city / 23 hwy.....16 mpg average (EPA figure, $1300 GG)

Well since it can go 292 mph in 10th gear I dont think I care about the GG tax. Just joking, but I too am shocked to see it get worse gas than the M6 like others have said though lots of city driving accounts for these.

Also if someone were trying to tell the wife or SO that you needed this car "to save fuel" it wouldn't work out too well in the A10. Hell my Ram 1500 gets a lot better with the 5.7 in it. Then again nobody would really buy this car for saving gas, but still disappointed they couldn't get it a little closer to the mark.

[clanky]

Oh and one last thing it looks like the A10 in the Ford Raptor doesn't do too well on MPG either. 15 city 18 highway 16 combined. Although better than the outgoing raptor which was 12 city 16 highway 13 combined. It's still reaches the same combined with a 2016 4wd F150 crew with 14 city 19 highway and 16 combined. So i'm not really convinced this transmission was even designed with fuel saving in mind maybe just performance. Guess we will have to see how it performs in the upcoming vehicles like the 2018 Mustang GT (which I would like to see it in a Camaro SS first, but eh).

P.s. Most of this is not relative to me anyways I like my "Stick". I would like to see some improvements made for the manual transmissions in all honesty.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by clanky

Oh and one last thing it looks like the A10 in the Ford Raptor doesn't do too well on MPG either. 15 city 18 highway 16 combined. Although better than the outgoing raptor which was 12 city 16 highway 13 combined. It's still reaches the same combined with a 2016 4wd F150 crew with 14 city 19 highway and 16 combined. So i'm not really convinced this transmission was even designed with fuel saving in mind maybe just performance. Guess we will have to see how it performs in the upcoming vehicles like the 2018 Mustang GT (which I would like to see it in a Camaro SS first, but eh).

P.s. Most of this is not relative to me anyways I like my "Stick". I would like to see some improvements made for the manual transmissions in all honesty.

That's a 23% increase in FE (for the Raptor)...I recall reading that it became Turbo only, as well? Can't remember. Either way - these people look for 1-2 percentage point increases year over year, so 23 is absolutely phenomenal.

It was also stated a while back that the 10-speed's FE benefits weren't going to be a impressive vs the 8 speed.....as the 8 speed was vs the 6 speed. Still...70hp / 94tq more, and a performance-tuned transmission in the ZL1 still resulted in almost 7% improvement in mpg.

I'm not entirely sure why anybody is disappointed by this.

[clanky]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

That's a 23% increase in FE (for the Raptor)...I recall reading that it became Turbo only, as well? Can't remember. Either way - these people look for 1-2 percentage point increases year over year, so 23 is absolutely phenomenal.

It was also stated a while back that the 10-speed's FE benefits weren't going to be a impressive vs the 8 speed.....as the 8 speed was vs the 6 speed. Still...70hp / 94tq more, and a performance-tuned transmission in the ZL1 still resulted in almost 7% improvement in mpg.

I'm not entirely sure why anybody is disappointed by this.

Right well it's a eco boost 6 cylinder as well instead of the V8. So I wonder how much of the increase has to do with the transmission and not the change in motor and weight savings they did. Guess we'll never know. The outgoing raptor also had a 6 speed so I was expecting a larger increase.. but hey an increase is better than nothing. side note I was really looking forward to picking up a new raptor until I heard that it was going to be a 6 banger eco boost. :/

Edit- Is it possible that the 10 speed was put into development purely for performance and not for fuel efficiency you think? I mean obviously for the camaro and other performance vehicles yes, but I wonder if it will have increases compared to the 8 speed auto to make it worth while? The shifts sure are quick from what I have seen in a video and I can't wait to go for a ride in somebody's that gets on in a 10 speed.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by clanky

Right well it's a eco boost 6 cylinder as well instead of the V8. So I wonder how much of the increase has to do with the transmission and not the change in motor and weight savings they did. Guess we'll never know. The outgoing raptor also had a 6 speed so I was expecting a larger increase.. but hey an increase is better than nothing. side note I was really looking forward to picking up a new raptor until I heard that it was going to be a 6 banger eco boost. :/

Edit- Is it possible that the 10 speed was put into development purely for performance and not for fuel efficiency you think? I mean obviously for the camaro and other performance vehicles yes, but I wonder if it will have increases compared to the 8 speed auto to make it worth while? The shifts sure are quick from what I have seen in a video and I can't wait to go for a ride in somebody's that gets on in a 10 speed.

I think it was both. The thing is...the hwy gears are no higher than the 8 speed. Yet, there are more gear options available to choose from down low.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

I alluded to it in my previous post. It has 3.31 rear gears (M6 ZL1 has 3.73) Ford changed the transmission gearing in the 13-14 GT500 to help with mpg (and hit 202 mph) to avoid the GG.

Right, but that's not really a big enough difference to account for being down 4 mpg on the highway. Not when the ZL1 is a newer more modern engine, has variable valve timing, and better aerodynamics.

[KLR ZL1]

Originally Posted by clanky

Right well it's a eco boost 6 cylinder as well instead of the V8. So I wonder how much of the increase has to do with the transmission and not the change in motor and weight savings they did. Guess we'll never know. The outgoing raptor also had a 6 speed so I was expecting a larger increase.. but hey an increase is better than nothing. side note I was really looking forward to picking up a new raptor until I heard that it was going to be a 6 banger eco boost. :/

Edit- Is it possible that the 10 speed was put into development purely for performance and not for fuel efficiency you think? I mean obviously for the camaro and other performance vehicles yes, but I wonder if it will have increases compared to the 8 speed auto to make it worth while? The shifts sure are quick from what I have seen in a video and I can't wait to go for a ride in somebody's that gets on in a 10 speed.

When GM puts it in the trucks and other cars it won't have the same shift algorithms, so it should be more efficient in other applications. This Is also how they kept the cost down too. Like some have questioned why they didn't just use a DCT. It wouldn't have been able to be used in multiple applications, therefore would have cost more. Just look at what cars have a DCT. We shall see once the 2018 vehicles start getting reviewed with the A10.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Right, but that's not really a big enough difference to account for being down 4 mpg on the highway. Not when the ZL1 is a newer more modern engine, has variable valve timing, and better aerodynamics.

They did something not quite right with the EPA tests on that car. I forget what it was, so I can't back it up, and won't try...but I remember being told by someone who'd know that they, essentially, cooked the books.

[Boilermaker128]

Does low mpg indicate high drivetrain lose? it will be interesting to see the dyno number compared to M6's.

Does anyone know about the Lexus A10? Developed by Aisin. Not sure how if any its related to Ford/Gm's co-venture.