[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

So, in your mind, restricting production to 500 units in order to create demand is a good thing? You will NEVER own one.

I prefer the they produce lots of them so they are treated like cars and get consumed. America = what we want, when we want it and lots of it.

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Restricted production is a great thing if you can afford the price of admission, it is also a good investment given Ford's recent history.

Bottom line in two head to head reviews both times the GT350R came out the winner regardless of the performance differance. The fun factor is clearly in the GT350R.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by hotlap

So, in your mind, restricting production to 500 units in order to create demand is a good thing? You will NEVER own one.

I prefer the they produce lots of them so they are treated like cars and get consumed. America = what we want, when we want it and lots of it.

He may NEVER own a GT350R, but he does own the Lincoln Log rear axle Mustang that a Honda Civic could out perform.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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You really need a reality check. If you are talking about investment potential the ZL1 shouldn't even be in the discussion. There will be a 20% discount coming soon as they are not moving off the lots due to lack of demand. When this happens the used values drop like a rock just like they have for the past 3-years Chevy has had to offer the massive discounts.

Don't even offer discounts on the GT350R just sell it at MSRP and each and every one will sell very quickly. Offer up the ZL1 at MSRP and no one will even look at it. The market has already decided which car is worth the money and which isn't.

Need proof. What is a 2013 45k 1LE worth today maybe 28k at best. What is a 2013 45k Boss worth today 38k or more. Which car was the better investment.

The only people that would buy a used Mustang with the live axle are teenagers that can't afford a good car. Even then, the smart ones don't. The live axle Mustangs are worthless.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Restricted production is a great thing if you can afford the price of admission, it is also a good investment given Ford's recent history.

Bottom line in two head to head reviews both times the GT350R came out the winner regardless of the performance differance. The fun factor is clearly in the GT350R.

In the first GT350R vs Camaro the GT350R put down a faster lap time, in this one they admit that its a bit apples to oranges as it wasn't the ZL1 1LE Camaro. They also stated that the GT350 kind of sucks in the video so it was purely just the GT350R that they liked. I believe they also said that they liked the way the SS 1LE Camaro drives over the GT350R (I would have to re-watch to make sure).

This is why this comparison was a bit of an apples to oranges comparison even though I know some might disagree. The GT350R is a focused track day car with stiff suspension, carbon fiber wheels, ceramic brakes, and things removed to save weight. That wasn't what the ZL1 Camaro was aimed it (though it is what the ZL1 1LE is aimed at) so it was never going to win that comparison. Well I shouldn't say it wasn't going to win, it came down to how they were going to weight things to give the win. Obviously the way the cars drove is what they were going to fully weight the points in, if it was a combination of how fast they were, how they drive, and driving manners in town then the ZL1 might have won.

[90503]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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You really need a reality check. If you are talking about investment potential the ZL1 shouldn't even be in the discussion. There will be a 20% discount coming soon as they are not moving off the lots due to lack of demand. When this happens the used values drop like a rock just like they have for the past 3-years Chevy has had to offer the massive discounts.

I will agree with the above. I'm sure market conditions will dictate prices over the next several years for Camaro and Mustang. I'm certainly no investment expert, except that I believe all these cars are a lousy, money making investment....at least in our lifetimes probably....

I would say they both have "potential", except that Mustang has already gambled high and paid any potential investment increase up front.

Smart money buys low and sells high, never the other way around. Any investment potential future increase in value will be in a 20% off MSRP Camaro. Mustang ADM has a big hole to dig out of.

Basically, in the short term, they will follow the same American made car values and depreciation we are all used to. Mustang's ADM is successful marketing hype, smoke and mirrors that some are falling for now, instead of later...

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by doc7000

In the first GT350R vs Camaro the GT350R put down a faster lap time, in this one they admit that its a bit apples to oranges as it wasn't the ZL1 1LE Camaro. They also stated that the GT350 kind of sucks in the video so it was purely just the GT350R that they liked. I believe they also said that they liked the way the SS 1LE Camaro drives over the GT350R (I would have to re-watch to make sure).

This is why this comparison was a bit of an apples to oranges comparison even though I know some might disagree. The GT350R is a focused track day car with stiff suspension, carbon fiber wheels, ceramic brakes, and things removed to save weight. That wasn't what the ZL1 Camaro was aimed it (though it is what the ZL1 1LE is aimed at) so it was never going to win that comparison. Well I shouldn't say it wasn't going to win, it came down to how they were going to weight things to give the win. Obviously the way the cars drove is what they were going to fully weight the points in, if it was a combination of how fast they were, how they drive, and driving manners in town then the ZL1 might have won.

Just FYI..the GT350R does not have Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by doc7000

In the first GT350R vs Camaro the GT350R put down a faster lap time, in this one they admit that its a bit apples to oranges as it wasn't the ZL1 1LE Camaro. They also stated that the GT350 kind of sucks in the video so it was purely just the GT350R that they liked. I believe they also said that they liked the way the SS 1LE Camaro drives over the GT350R (I would have to re-watch to make sure).

This is why this comparison was a bit of an apples to oranges comparison even though I know some might disagree. The GT350R is a focused track day car with stiff suspension, carbon fiber wheels, ceramic brakes, and things removed to save weight. That wasn't what the ZL1 Camaro was aimed it (though it is what the ZL1 1LE is aimed at) so it was never going to win that comparison. Well I shouldn't say it wasn't going to win, it came down to how they were going to weight things to give the win. Obviously the way the cars drove is what they were going to fully weight the points in, if it was a combination of how fast they were, how they drive, and driving manners in town then the ZL1 might have won.

No ceramic brakes on the GT350R.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

The only people that would buy a used Mustang with the live axle are teenagers that can't afford a good car. Even then, the smart ones don't. The live axle Mustangs are worthless.

Not true. Live axles are generally considered better for drag racing. So if that's what you want a live axle Mustang is an excellent platform.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Not true. Live axles are generally considered better for drag racing. So if that's what you want a live axle Mustang is an excellent platform.

True, live axle is the best for drag racing. But the average person does not want that axle, so the market value for live axle Mustangs are low.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Restricted production is a great thing if you can afford the price of admission, it is also a good investment given Ford's recent history.

It is a bad thing for people that want to own one because it inflates the value and shuts out average buyers. I rather like that Chevy offers insane levels of performance that regular guys can afford.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Bottom line in two head to head reviews both times the GT350R came out the winner regardless of the performance differance. The fun factor is clearly in the GT350R.

We weren't discussing the subjective selection where Cammisa, with his little girl titties, rendered his opinion worthless with an insulting stereotype that has no bearing on the abilities or intent of the ZL1. By the way, it really is a better fit with your passion, HC and Demon.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

It is a bad thing for people that want to own one because it inflates the value and shuts out average buyers. I rather like that Chevy offers insane levels of performance that regular guys can afford.


We weren't discussing the subjective selection where Cammisa, with his little girl titties, rendered his opinion worthless with an insulting stereotype that has no bearing on the abilities or intent of the ZL1. By the way, it really is a better fit with your passion, HC and Demon.

IIRC wasn't the 5th Gen Z/28 supposed to be limited production, but then in year 2 they made way to many and had to fire sale them to get rid of them?

Limited production has its place. Something with a singular purpose like the Z/28 or 350R should be limited production but the hard part is finding the right balance.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

IIRC wasn't the 5th Gen Z/28 supposed to be limited production, but then in year 2 they made way to many and had to fire sale them to get rid of them?

Limited production has its place. Something with a singular purpose like the Z/28 or 350R should be limited production but the hard part is finding the right balance.

Look at all of the old 2016 GT350's that are NEW that they can't get out the door. They are going to have to fire sale them to dump them.

Everyone get ready to get one....

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...by+GT350&Log=0

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

IIRC wasn't the 5th Gen Z/28 supposed to be limited production, but then in year 2 they made way to many and had to fire sale them to get rid of them?

Limited production has its place. Something with a singular purpose like the Z/28 or 350R should be limited production but the hard part is finding the right balance.

IIRC 2014 was limited to 500 (515 actually) because of where they were in the calendar year. They (over) estimated demand at 2500 for 2015 .

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/04/...-has-sold-out/

I agree that limiting production to not over produce is good. Limiting production to create rarity (special) sucks for all but collectors

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

IIRC 2014 was limited to 500 (515 actually) because of where they were in the calendar year. They (over) estimated demand at 2500 for 2015 .

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/04/...-has-sold-out/

I agree that limiting production to not over produce is good. Limiting production to create rarity (special) sucks for all but collectors

Agreed, all about finding right balance.