[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

16,200lbs of total weight with me in it, tow it all the time near that weight and I am not light on the throttle.

That’s 1 camaro motor with the load of 4 camaros with a fat guy sitting in each one

And those trucks will run forever "lugging". And Camaro owners don't want to put it in 6th gear for fear of killing their car

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Notice that blurb gives no actual RPM or load, just vague terms.

Also notice that the Gen V LT1 is SAE certified from 1,000 to 6,000 RPM. That means it's guaranteed to give that torque output at 1,000 RPM, no excuses. At best, someone could argue "lugging" is WOT <1,000 RPM, but it's asinine to assert that "lugging" is >1,000 RPM given the SAE certification.

Divide the torque in that chart by 2 while in 6th gear.

Remember that the initial energy that moves a car forward starts in the combustion chamber in the form of an explosion. This explosion forces a piston (or group of pistons) down in a straight line, which pushes on a connecting rod and turns the engine's crankshaft. It's this turning crankshaft where the twisting force of torque initiates. From there the force is carried through a flywheel, transmission, driveshaft, axle(s) and wheel(s) before moving the car.

If the engine is spinning slowly and you apply high load then there is a huge force against the pistons. When at 0 and 180 deg this load gets transferred directly into the bearings.

The Oil pump is driven via RPM, so low rpm = less oil pressure/flow.

High Loads, lower oil pressure is not a recipe for success.

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

And those trucks will run forever "lugging". And Camaro owners don't want to put it in 6th gear for fear of killing their car

What Truck tows below 2K RPM?



As posted by torqueaddict from what the owners manual lists.

TLDR for lugging.

Higher Load at Low RPM is bad, Higher Load at High RPM is ok.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

What Truck tows below 2K RPM?



As posted by torqueaddict from what the owners manual lists.

TLDR for lugging.

Higher Load at Low RPM is bad, Higher Load at High RPM is ok.

Sigh...

A truck towing 12k lbs at 4k rpm is still stressing the engine more than a Camaro at 1500. Lugging is't RPM based, it's load based. They cruise on the hwy for thousands of miles in overdrive " lugging". People around here worry and overthink too much about the silliest things.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

Divide the torque in that chart by 2 while in 6th gear...

You're saying that the engine only makes 230 LbFt peak in 6th gear? Obviously, per the ECU strategy, you're mistaken.

Read the graph again. It says "engine speed", not axle speed.

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

...
As posted by torqueaddict from what the owners manual lists...

You have completely failed to address the facts. The owners manual fails to give data, it only provides undefined vague terms. Do you have an exact RPM and load for "lugging"? You do not.

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Sigh...

A truck towing 12k lbs at 4k rpm is still stressing the engine more than a Camaro at 1500. Lugging is't RPM based, it's load based. They cruise on the hwy for thousands of miles in overdrive " lugging". People around here worry and overthink too much about the silliest things.

I'm not here to argue your first statement(lugging vs towing loads).

But yes your right Lugging isn't RPM based. In a Camaro(car), lugging is most likely to occur at lower RPMs where the engine isn't making power when a high gear is selected.

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're saying that the engine only makes 230 LbFt peak in 6th gear?

Obviously, per the ECU strategy, you're mistaken.

That's correct. If you measure the torque output at the transmission in 6th gear you'll only see 230lbs peak.

I have no idea what the ECU has to do with physical gear ratio properties, please explain.


If you ever driven a low HP car(~100hp) before and tried to do a high speed run? Usually in top gear you'll start loosing speed instead of gaining speed.

[Ryephile]

You're still not looking at the whole picture. The engine is still making 460 LbFt peak at full load. It doesn't care what gear you're in, the ECU doesn't limit torque by gear. In 6th gear, the overall powertrain drive ratio is 1.865:1 (0.500 * 3.730). Thus the torque to the axles is a peak of 857.9 LbFt, and a peak of 779.9 Lb of motive force to the contact patch with a 763 rev/mi tire.

Your anecdotal example of a low power car has no relevance to anything, and frankly your example of 6th gear also has no relevance to the topic. Load = Load and the gear ratios are irrelevant.

[Boost Creep]

I think GM means, don't completely floor the car while doing 40mph in sixth gear.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

I think GM means, don't completely floor the car while doing 40mph in sixth gear.

Source for those numbers? That would be 950 RPM. Are you asserting that 950 RPM in 6th is somehow different than 950 RPM in 1st?

The ECU meters out a specific amount of torque at ANY RPM within the RPM bandwidth. This is clear as day in the calibration software. You guys thinking that your foot has any real control over the engine output are delusional.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Source for those numbers?

Mycraniumdotcom

[DaveC113]

Point is gearing multiplies torque and flooring it at ~1000 rpm in 6th is lugging while in 1st thru 4th or so it's not.

At low rpms the pistons are moving slower but the air/gas mixture still explodes the same way, the slower expansion caused by the low-rpm/low piston speed exerts more force on the pistons, which are transferred into the rods, etc... This is lugging, at a certain point it can become a problem. In a MT car the driver can cause these issues by applying too much throttle in too high of a gear, conditions an AT car will never experience.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Point is gearing multiplies torque and flooring it at ~1000 rpm in 6th is lugging while in 1st thru 4th or so it's not...

You're asserting that 1000 RPM does not equal 1000 RPM.


I'm rather amused at how you guys are tripping over yourself to make absolutely asinine arguments. The gear the transmission is in makes NO difference to the engine operation, so just stop pretending it does.

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're asserting that 1000 RPM does not equal 1000 RPM.


I'm rather amused at how you guys are tripping over yourself to make absolutely asinine arguments. The gear the transmission is in makes NO difference to the engine operation, so just stop pretending it does.

What we are talking about is low RPM events <1.2kish

Gearing directly impacts engine load.

The Engine is capable of supplying 460lbs of torque yes, higher loads due to gear ratios affect engine stresses.

Higher engine stresses at low RPM which means lower available oil pressure = more wear .

Why cause more wear to your engine?

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

You're asserting that 1000 RPM does not equal 1000 RPM.


I'm rather amused at how you guys are tripping over yourself to make absolutely asinine arguments. The gear the transmission is in makes NO difference to the engine operation, so just stop pretending it does.

IMO your argument is asinine. You're clueless, sorry.

Or, I guess GM put that in the owner's manual just for fun? Seriously?