[Devstrike]

The customer will always dictate the market. While I do not see a 7th Gen Camaro ICE coming I also don't see a complete swap to EV when people want the US costumer too. There is a possibility where we will see what will happen when the US Consumer butt heads with what regulators want and possibly some manufacturers. EV sales will increase but compared to other countries US EV sales are very lackluster despite the increases. ICE is still king a long with non plug in and plug in hybrids in the US. The best Middle ground is non plug in hybrids and plug in hybrids.

[MT-SS1LE]

Every EV maker, except Tesla, is losing money. A ton of money on each EV they sell. It's why all the major automakers are re-evaluating their EV production commitments. And when Trump ends the $7500 EV credit, just how many EV's outside of the major cities do you think will be sold? Sure, they will remain popular in California and the East Coast cities. Everywhere else, no one wants them. And for good reason. I can count on one hand the number of EV's I've seen on the road in a three state area. When the free-market is allowed to decide, instead of unelected bureaucrats, ICE cars win every time. Thank God some sanity is coming back to our economy in January. ICE cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[tenargo57]

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

? Sure, they will remain popular in California and the East Coast cities. Everywhere else, no one wants them. And for good reason. I can count on one hand the number of EV's I've seen on the road in a three state area.

You've only seen a few EV's on the roads? You live in a bubble. California only accounts for 35% of total of EV registrations in the US. Florida and Texas are #2 and 3.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

The customer will always dictate the market. While I do not see a 7th Gen Camaro ICE coming I also don't see a complete swap to EV when people want the US costumer too. There is a possibility where we will see what will happen when the US Consumer butt heads with what regulators want and possibly some manufacturers. EV sales will increase but compared to other countries US EV sales are very lackluster despite the increases. ICE is still king a long with non plug in and plug in hybrids in the US. The best Middle ground is non plug in hybrids and plug in hybrids.

Kind of true, but you can't buy a car without airbags or seatbelts no matter how much you want one. Your car must meet current emissions standards no matter how badly you might not want it to. And it's the future emissions standards that are driving EVs from the OEMs, not government mandates for EVs. EVs happen to be the most effective way to meet the emission standards AND meet the requirements for CARB (also not an EV mandate).

As long as you have the government establishing minimum safety and emissions (same as Fuel Economy btw) standards you will have limitations on what you can buy as a consumer.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MT-SS1LE

Every EV maker, except Tesla, is losing money. A ton of money on each EV they sell. It's why all the major automakers are re-evaluating their EV production commitments. And when Trump ends the $7500 EV credit, just how many EV's outside of the major cities do you think will be sold? Sure, they will remain popular in California and the East Coast cities. Everywhere else, no one wants them. And for good reason. I can count on one hand the number of EV's I've seen on the road in a three state area. When the free-market is allowed to decide, instead of unelected bureaucrats, ICE cars win every time. Thank God some sanity is coming back to our economy in January. ICE cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

GM remains wildly popular considering your statement "every EV maker, except Tesla is losing money". The rest remain profitable as well. Now if you are meaning to simply state "if they were a separate business unit" like Ford did, they would be losing money, well that is mostly do to investment and development costs for future products being held to your standard. GM easily funds all of it's EV development as well as ICE and is still making money like a printing press.

Now Biden already changed some of the $7,500 tax credit based on battery manufacturing, price of the vehicle (why Tesla dropped some prices) and income.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductio...-2023-or-after

Trump may eliminate it, which I have always been in support of, but Biden already took major steps to reduce the people and vehicles that can get the credit.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Dodge will probably have a higher chance of bringing back the Hemi than GM has to bring back the Camaro with a V8.

Good thing my Camaro is a forever car but GM really doesn't mind us going elsewhere if we want a V8 car that isn't a Corvette. I can see myself having Ford Mustang in my garage next to my Camaro.

Stellantis has eliminated the V8 and even in their 1500 pickups it's their new inline 6. This is what will be going into the Charger/Challenger as early as next year. 500 plus HP though, just not a V8. Mustang remains the only choice unless you go high end European (M, AMG etc.)

[cooldawg]

The same philosophy should be applied to energy infrastructure and cars. Remove the subsidies, reduce regulation especially specific to carbon emissions, and adopt an ‘all of the above’ type strategy.

That said, I do favor some type of tax credit for cars manufactured here in the USA vs. tariffs… EV or ICE, provide US manufactures and the unions a better opportunity to compete- and negotiate contracts that are workable for both parties.

I like the approach GM has taken with the corvette; building the cars and the engines in the same place. A nearby museum and museum deliveries? Icing on the cake! Too bad they didn’t take a similar approach with Camaro in Ohio… Short term perhaps a poor investment, but that wins you market share far into the future. That’s what keeps brands strong in the dips and valleys.

I’m ready to pull the trigger, but I’m not sure I can stomach paying GG tax again… DOGE needs to do their thing next year and terminate this EPA bureaucratic jobs program!

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by cooldawg

I like the approach GM has taken with the corvette; building the cars and the engines in the same place. A nearby museum and museum deliveries? Icing on the cake! Too bad they didn’t take a similar approach with Camaro in Ohio… Short term perhaps a poor investment, but that wins you market share far into the future. That’s what keeps brands strong in the dips and valleys.

Only the LT6 and upcoming LT7 are built in BG. The LT2 is still built in NY.

The museum delivery is a nice touch. Only 1200 people out of the 43,000 C8's sold for the 2024 MY took advantage of it. It's not that big of an influence on the C8 market......

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Mustang remains the only choice unless you go high end European (M, AMG etc.)

...gotta pay for those imaginary Carbon Credits! We'll make those EVs profitable somehow!

For 2025, the Ford Mustang costs more than before if you're opting for the V-8 models.
The GT trims start $2600 higher than last year, with the Dark Horse Premium now starting at $69,870 (up $3645).

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...mustang-price/

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Capricio

...gotta pay for those imaginary Carbon Credits! We'll make those EVs profitable somehow!



https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...mustang-price/

I got mine

[PostalLDMC]

I got my new Blackwing to bad about the great Camaro "Death"

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You may be conflating two related issues.

Mark Reuss announced GM plan to produce 100% Zero Emissions Vehicles in 2019 (Trump was president)

Mary Barra announced GM’s commitment to Carbon Neutrality by 2040 in January 2021 (Biden was president)

The difference between the two statements is that Carbon Neutral includes carbon reduction and/or offsets from the manufacturing processes. The intent is for the entire auto manufacturing and marketing business to be carbon neutral.

In either event, rest assured that the decisions to pursue those strategies were announced lonnnngggbefore they were announced. So the decisions were made when Trump was president.

The decisions were made public during Trump 1.0 but I am certain the discussions, plans, and framework were all put into motion under Obama.

Unless you as a former GM employee can factually prove me wrong with signed and dated documentation showing that, hey, they just decided all this while Trump was in office after two years.

Bara is absolutely an implementation of the Obama administration.

Trump couldn’t implement much his first time around due to a Democrat Congress and much of the Washington stalwarts in charge of everything.

It’s different now. He’s got the guns AND the ammo to clean house.

If GM wants to stay in business - at least in America - they better reconsider their future in ICE gasoline engines

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

If GM wants to stay in business - at least in America - they better reconsider their future in ICE gasoline engines

Yea, especially considering that the only profit comes from ICE now. I wish GM would report their earnings the same as Ford - seperate between ICE and EV. I think they are panting a rosy picture where one doesn't exist.

-Geoff

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

The decisions were made public during Trump 1.0 but I am certain the discussions, plans, and framework were all put into motion under Obama.

Unless you as a former GM employee can factually prove me wrong with signed and dated documentation showing that, hey, they just decided all this while Trump was in office after two years.

Of course I’m not going to give you “signed and dated documentation…”. That would be ridiculous. I doubt that I could convince you that water is wet. But for everyone else who’s paying attention, here’s a timeline…

I retired from GM in March 2017. Trump was president. One of the last things I had my department working on before I retired was planning support for the 3rd Gen Volt, including a Buick variant and a GMC badged SUV. Shortly before my last days in the company that program was cancelled and work shifted to looking into hybrid applications and next gen Bolt EV. Based on that, when Reuss made his announcement in 2019 (I was at IHS / S&P Global by then) I assumed that what he meant was that GM would offer ICE vehicles and EV vehicles but nothing in between like hybrids and PHEVs. That’s pretty consistent with where things were trending while I was still at GM. When I spoke to one of my former employees at GM about that interpretation, they said “no…he meant exactly what he said. The intent is everything goes EV”.

Originally Posted by olrocker

Barra is absolutely an implementation of the Obama administration.

Trump couldn’t implement much his first time around due to a Democrat Congress and much of the Washington stalwarts in charge of everything.

It’s different now. He’s got the guns AND the ammo to clean house.

If GM wants to stay in business - at least in America - they better reconsider their future in ICE gasoline engines

The issue is, automakers don’t operate on 4-year plans. They can’t adjust plans based on who’s in office “today” because the product of those plans won’t hit asphalt for typically 5 years from date of approval. By then there very well could be a different administration with different positions. Which is sorta what has been happening since 2012. What automakers have to do is set the strategy (in GM’s case, Zero Emissions, Zero Crashes, Zero Congestion by 2035) based on the long-term view (10 -15 years looking forward) and adjust the tactics used to achieve the strategy based on who’s in office and what the new or amended regulations are. But don’t take my word for it. GM’s CFO probably has a closer view of it than I do. And here’s what he said just a couple days ago.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/11...s-says-gm-cfo/

Excerpt: GM will continue to push forward with its EV transition as before, The General’s CFO Paul Jacobson said while speaking at Barclay’s 15th Annual Global Automotive and Mobility Tech Conference on November 20th, 2024. Jacobson declared that GM has been “consistent that we’re not looking to next quarter, next year, et cetera,” and instead is “thinking about this in a much longer time horizon.” This approach, he says, “allows us to be a little bit more stable.” About a year ago, GM CEO Mary Barra still plans a fully electrified lineup by 2035, and Jacobson’s remarks seem to indicate this plan is still in place.