[OldJedi]

Al O has been very proud of the V8-1LE and has restricted it having a 2SS option saying it is a track focused car first and foremost. It is a question whether he is proud to a fault. By not allowing the 1LE to have the 2SS option how many orders for a 2SS-1LE are not being placed? As the Chief Engineer for Camaro he controls what goes into the car and what stays out. If he will not allow the 2SS option in the 1LE I hold very little hope that he will allow the A10 to be installed in his track focused car. Unless Mark Reuss or Mary Barra can convince him to change his mind, I would not hold my breath.

[DrkPhx]

^^ It just takes a nudge from the competition like the 2018 Mustang GT now available with MRC, A10 and the new PP2 option which I can only guess is a track package. Isn't one reason they only offered the 1LE in the 1SS version is to keep the price down? Surely a similarly optioned GT will cost around the same price. Also, the published performance numbers for the A10 equipped 17 ZL1 are quicker than the manual version, so why not offer the A10 for the 1LE to make it quicker at the track?

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

^^ It just takes a nudge from the competition like the 2018 Mustang GT now available with MRC, A10 and the new PP2 option which I can only guess is a track package. Isn't one reason they only offered the 1LE in the 1SS version is to keep the price down? Surely a similarly optioned GT will cost around the same price. Also, the published performance numbers for the A10 equipped 17 ZL1 are quicker than the manual version, so why not offer the A10 for the 1LE to make it quicker at the track?

You bring up a very sensible and rational thought process, however I'm not sure that Al shares your opinion. He has stood firm when it comes to the 1LE's purpose and the current 1SS/1LE is the most optioned model that he has released thus far. I don't think he will add more options without a push from above. Also the 1SS has been priced higher than a Mustang GT from the beginning and nobody at Chevy seemed to care that they sold more Mustangs than Camaros because of price.

[backeddy]

what makes you think it shifts faster than the A10? According to GM it's ~30% faster than the PDK
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/11/c...r-porsche-pdk/

not to mention the added benefits of having 10 speed over the 7.. even if it was slower than the PDK how can we possibly quantify the few 100ths of a second

For starters, GM has used this same propaganda for the last few years

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-pdk-heres-how

and secondly, I know how an automatic works vs a DCT like the PDK, torque converter and solenoids work great....for about 3 laps and that one you can take to the bank. As far as 100th's go, you are mistaken as when the heat soak happens, it is probably SECONDS per shift (just check out the A8 comments listed here on C6 already). The PDK NEVER delays or slows down. I am sure it (A10) is a great tranny, but comparing it to the best tranny in the world is nothing more than propaganda, kind of like Al saying the C5 1LE was a track car and they would fix it when it broke.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by backeddy

For starters, GM has used this same propaganda for the last few years

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-pdk-heres-how

and secondly, I know how an automatic works vs a DCT like the PDK, torque converter and solenoids work great....for about 3 laps and that one you can take to the bank. As far as 100th's go, you are mistaken as when the heat soak happens, it is probably SECONDS per shift (just check out the A8 comments listed here on C6 already). The PDK NEVER delays or slows down. I am sure it (A10) is a great tranny, but comparing it to the best tranny in the world is nothing more than propaganda, kind of like Al saying the C5 1LE was a track car and they would fix it when it broke.

Ok, I have to say I am very familiar with the technologies offered by GM. I also know the fact that the GM already addressed that overheating issue by offering an external/secondary Z06 transmission cooler recently. With that said, the new A10 transmission is different and ZL1 already comes with many coolers that should keep the temps in check (according to GM)

If we go back to performance differences; Porsche never denied GM's claims about the PDK being a slower of the two. They definitely would do that in a heartbeat, if GM's claim was false, don't you think? GM also wouldn't just throw a false claim and ruin their own reputation IMO. I cannot blame GM if they offer a superior transmission to the best one currently available (let's say PDK) and brag about it I wouldn't call that a propaganda, that's marketing which Porsche really excels.

long story short, A10 performs better than the PDK on the paper (not the other way around ) and only time will tell how it will perform in the long run or if the overheating will ever be an issue

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Ok, I have to say I am very familiar with the technologies offered by GM. I also know the fact that the GM already addressed that overheating issue by offering an external/secondary Z06 transmission cooler recently. With that said, the new A10 transmission is different and ZL1 already comes with many coolers that should keep the temps in check (according to GM)

If we go back to performance differences; Porsche never denied GM's claims about the PDK being a slower of the two. They definitely would do that in a heartbeat, if GM's claim was false, don't you think? GM also wouldn't just throw a false claim and ruin their own reputation IMO. I cannot blame GM if they offer a superior transmission to the best one currently available (let's say PDK) and brag about it I wouldn't call that a propaganda, that's marketing which Porsche really excels.

long story short, A10 performs better than the PDK on the paper (not the other way around ) and only time will tell how it will perform in the long run or if the overheating will ever be an issue

No I don't think Porsche would respond. I don't think they care what GM says

[Iron Oak]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

^^ It just takes a nudge from the competition like the 2018 Mustang GT now available with MRC, A10 and the new PP2 option which I can only guess is a track package. Isn't one reason they only offered the 1LE in the 1SS version is to keep the price down? Surely a similarly optioned GT will cost around the same price. Also, the published performance numbers for the A10 equipped 17 ZL1 are quicker than the manual version, so why not offer the A10 for the 1LE to make it quicker at the track?

The biggest reason and the Germans are now finally learning, is there's more to driving than lap times and spreadsheets. Yes the A10 might be a few 10ths of a second quicker shifting but people want engagement while driving. That's something that an automatic or Dual clutch will never be able to replicate.

Everyone gets so caught up in figures on a piece of paper and forget about the driving experience. Another downfall of the automatic is longevity on course. Even with the coolers I would be willing to bet it will still have cooling issues for extended use on the track vs a manual transmission.

[Iron Oak]

Having driven both a GT3 with PDK and a Z06 with the A8 on track (a road course NOT a drag strip) I can tell you first hand they are in completely different leagues. The PDK is so far superior to the A8 it's not even a contest. No one cares about upshifts in a road course setting, its downshifts you should be focusing on and the A8 is abismal. It is so slow from the time you hit the downshift paddle to the actual engagement of the gear. Even when left in auto is far from good. The PDK however is amazingly good in both auto and manual shift. When left in auto the downshift algorithms are some of the best I have ever experienced. (In both the GT3 and GT3 RS).

I won't even go into the overheating of the A8 on course but it's a big issue.

As good as the PDK is I still prefer a good manual transmission like found in the GT4. You can continue to site quotes and all but I have had first hand experience and this is my feedback. Take it as you will.

I manage a race track and get to drive MANY different cars on course. They are all fun in their own way but I can not wait to get my 1LE. It really is something special.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Thor142

No I don't think Porsche would respond. I don't think they care what GM says

they definitely would, I remember their response about the GTR when the Nissan team used an R comp tires at Nurburging They were not even targeting Porsche but Porsche stepped in to keep their competitive advantage in market

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Iron Oak

The biggest reason and the Germans are now finally learning, is there's more to driving than lap times and spreadsheets. Yes the A10 might be a few 10ths of a second quicker shifting but people want engagement while driving. That's something that an automatic or Dual clutch will never be able to replicate.

Everyone gets so caught up in figures on a piece of paper and forget about the driving experience. Another downfall of the automatic is longevity on course. Even with the coolers I would be willing to bet it will still have cooling issues for extended use on the track vs a manual transmission.

some people yes, not all the people and also "engagement", "experience" are all intangible/subjective things but some people prefer the technological advancements over the 3 pedals and offering an option for those shouldn't affect anyone else..
If you think about it putting a faster lap times and being able to use left foot braking and concentrating on your lines and driving is another experience, it's just a personal preference ..

I will most likely go with a manual (as I did with my previous cars) but having an option wouldn't hurt IMO

Originally Posted by Iron Oak

Having driven both a GT3 with PDK and a Z06 with the A8 on track (a road course NOT a drag strip) I can tell you first hand they are in completely different leagues. The PDK is so far superior to the A8 it's not even a contest. No one cares about upshifts in a road course setting, its downshifts you should be focusing on and the A8 is abismal. It is so slow from the time you hit the downshift paddle to the actual engagement of the gear. Even when left in auto is far from good. The PDK however is amazingly good in both auto and manual shift. When left in auto the downshift algorithms are some of the best I have ever experienced. (In both the GT3 and GT3 RS).

I won't even go into the overheating of the A8 on course but it's a big issue.

As good as the PDK is I still prefer a good manual transmission like found in the GT4. You can continue to site quotes and all but I have had first hand experience and this is my feedback. Take it as you will.

I manage a race track and get to drive MANY different cars on course. They are all fun in their own way but I can not wait to get my 1LE. It really is something special.

PDK might be a better overall transmission but faster upshifts is still important and A10 is different ..
Let's see how GM responds to Ford